Posted by Anonymous on 5/8/06 11:47pm
Msg #118458

newly confused in PA

Ok vets, help me out here! I'm a newbie! I will soon be performing signings, but I am confused about some things. . .I have searched the boards and read through a ton of posts, but still have not gained a sufficient amount of clarity on these topics. . .so. . .

1. I have read, or possibly misunderstood, two conflicting descriptions of when to have borrowers initial forms. Do they have to initial every page in the package or just the pages where there is a spot for it?

2. Also, I am a bit confused by the AKA Aff. in relation to properly identifying the signer. Can someone give me a basic rundown of what exactly this form means to me, the Signing Agent? I have searched and read the boards, but it's still not clear to me. Let's say that id is in the name Jane Mary Smith and the docs are written up for Jane Smith. If Jane Mary Smith is on the AKA aff. may I proceed even though the id does not meet the less but not more criteria? Or is the AKA aff. irrelevant for the purposes of me properly identifying signers?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Reply by notarypa on 5/8/06 11:56pm
Msg #118461

I have the borrowers initial EVERY page that is NOT a signature page. I have never had a complaint and everyone is happy. My logic is, I rather the lender know your hand touched each page. This goes for the 24 pages of closing instructions too!!

For the AKA....if the id has more info or less, I have them add it to the statement--never had a problem here either--. I ask each borrower if they have ever used another name or a variation of their name: middle initial, jr, sr, ect..... It is my understanding that this affidavit is affirming that all the names listed are one and the same person......this document is not for the purposes of properly identifying the signer.

Where are you in PA? How many signings have you completed? If you are near the Lehigh Valley I would be more than happy to take you to a signing with me or go with you.

Reply by meizmel on 5/9/06 12:04am
Msg #118463

I am in Beaver. . .north west of Pittsburgh. I appreciate you offer, but I think we are on opposite sides of the state! But thank you so much for extending the invitation! I could use a little help to aid in settling my nerves! I know I'm bound to make mistakes, but I have to say that I don't like to!

So if the document is not for identifying purposes I would need another form of id?

Reply by notarypa on 5/9/06 12:17am
Msg #118464

Yes. I always ask for two forms of ID. If the ID is not the same, perhaps there is a credit card or the like that would match the government issued ID. I always send a copy of the both IDs to the lender. If I think there is a problem identifying the signer then I call the signing service and title co ASAP. You can not use the documents to identify the signers. You use their ID and ensure the name on the ID matches the name on the documents. Have the borrowers fill out the AKA statement if there are any variations to their name, but that document is for the bank it would not hold water that you used it to identify the signers....you have to notarize it anyway after you have positively ID'ed them.

You are not bound to make mistakes!! Just be prepared and ask questions when you aren't sure. The title co and or signing services would prefer that you call and ask what you might feel is a "stupid question" rather than having to fix your "stupid mistake." That's my motto and guess what......you will even run into the situations of them not knowing what you should do to their docs........that's always fun! Feel free to contact me anytime [e-mail address]

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/9/06 12:26am
Msg #118465

Why do you ask for 2 forms of ID? Unless there's something odd about PA notary law that I don't know about, you don't need 2 forms of ID to notarize somebody. And even if it did ask for 2 forms of ID, I seriously doubt that a credit card would be one of them. There's no way in hell I would show my credit card to a notary if I had a perfectly valid state ID.

It sounds like you do a lot of overkill on your signings, which IMO looks unprofessional, like you're not sure what you're doing so you'll just do a bit of everything.

To the original poster, unless you have specific instructions to do otherwise, no, you do not need to have the borrower initial every page, only the pages that ask for it.

And as for the ID, if it says Jane Mary Smith and the docs say Jane Smith you're perfectly fine. The signature/name affadavit has nothing to do with our job, it's just another form we notarize.

It's good to see that you've done your homework prior to your first signing, that seems to be somewhat of a rarity in these parts. Just make sure you know your notary law very well, specifically how to complete acknowledgements and jurats and what is acceptable ID in your state. If it's not on the list of acceptable ID (such as a credit card or social security card), then it isn't acceptable ID, period. NEVER make exceptions to this, the whole point of our job is to properly ID people.

Reply by meizmel on 5/9/06 12:33am
Msg #118468

I have a tendancy to obsess when taking on new things! So I have definately done some homework. . .just hoping that I have done ENOUGH homework to get the job done properly! We will soon find out!

Thanks for the input!

Reply by notarypa on 5/9/06 12:41am
Msg #118470

I ask for two forms of ID because most of the banks request it. I have only had a handful that ask for one. Even those that only want a copy of one, the bank requests I have looked at two forms of ID. In my experience, more common than not. For clarification, I do NOT use a credit card as a form of ID, I use it as a form of supporting documentation when the names on the ID's do not match. I have had instances where the lender has requested copies of the front and back of credit cards when the names do not match on the other ID's. If I were just a notary, maybe one form would be ok......if it were government issued. But for my protection (as PA quite serious on its notary laws and guildlines) and for the protection of homeowners I service I always ask for two. I have never encountered a problem and I have done quite a few signings for operation managers of closing departments with the very lenders we deal with. I do not consider it overkill. I have them initial every page and I give the borrowers a copy of EVERY page. I have gotten quite a bit of compliments on that. What some would call overkill I call being thorough. We don't have fingerprint laws or a law indicating the signer must sign the journal so the additional ID is also for my peace of mind.

PS I have been in the industry for over three years. I spent over a year at a local title company where I witness this same rule of thumb for their protection.

Reply by meizmel on 5/9/06 12:27am
Msg #118466

Thanks for the additional explanation. . .now I get it!!!

No, I guess I'm not bound to make mistakes. . .I'm a little overwhelmed by some of the things that I read on these forums. Everyone is very well versed and I know that I am not yet at that level! But I am very excited about beginning my new adventure!

I will e-mail you and let you know how my first signing goes! I am going to start marketing tomorrow so hopefully it won't be long!

It was really nice talking with you! Time for me to hit the sack!

Reply by notarypa on 5/9/06 12:44am
Msg #118471

When I started it took 7 days to get my first signing. Fill out 10 apps per day with signing co's a day. Email me if you want a list (free). In three months or less, you will be rocking!

All the best.

Reply by Anonymous on 5/9/06 1:36am
Msg #118472

I'm just getting started as a signing agent in Phoenix, AZ and read through the posts every day. I noticed something you said that has me a little concerned about additional equipment I may need. You said you send in copies of the ID's that you use for verification. How do you make copies of the ID's on the road?

Thank you

Reply by Drakester_IA on 5/9/06 1:45am
Msg #118473

When you are confirming your appointment with the bo. Ask them to have a copy of ID ready for the signing as you will need them to return with the Doc's. Sometimes when you get your you get your docs the instructions will not specify that you will need them. But then again if you do then they will be available. I have had appointments where I asked the bo. to have copies ready and when I got there they did not. Call the company that hired you and more often then not they will instruct the bo to fax them the next day

good luck.

Reply by Anonymous on 5/9/06 2:09am
Msg #118475

Thank you kindly

I'm probably over-researching the subject, but I'm kind of afraid to get started. I know and understand loan docs like the back of my hand, but still searching training and certification necessities. They were too busy here to take my order for a stamp so I'm still waiting to receive my new one...then...I may get up the nerve to get started.

Thank you all for all of the information you put on here...I really enjoy it

Reply by Drakester_IA on 5/9/06 2:13am
Msg #118476

anon send me an email [e-mail address]

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 5/9/06 9:41am
Msg #118519

Re: newly confused in PA-Anon please allow me to chime in

at this point so I can brag on my greatest bargain ever..... I was using my hubby's digital company camera of which the zoom really didn't produce a clear shot of ID. I guess one could say I frequent thrift stores as a hobby(my hubby wouldn't enter a thrift store with a 10 foot pole). While in one store not long ago I came upon a great digital, I say great because it was clean, looked barely used. I paid 5 bucks for it, what a great digital and takes great shots of ID, once home I download on computer and print. Ideal for me.....Best 5 bucks I ever spent.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/9/06 9:48am
Msg #118522

Re: LkA - Digital Cams

are shunned by some as extensive work in the field to take and snap an ID picture, but it's my contention that if you control all you can to the best of your ability and do what is required it will yield more things going right instead of wrong.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 5/9/06 9:51am
Msg #118523

Re: newly confused in PA-Anon I might also add

I prefer to ask borrower to make copies in advance when confirming appointment time, keep a digital on hand in the car in the event they neglected to make copies and lender is requesting them. I have also had some borrowers tell me they already sent copies of ID in and then some lenders instructions don't request them. It would be wise to get them in any event, you will also get to know your lenders some will want them others don't, has been my personal experience but it only takes a second to snap a digital and you can always delete it from your file. I recently did a reverse mortgage, the LO was present and he carries a copier in his car, small portable and when he comes to help borrower complete the docs, he makes a copy of everything he needs then.

Reply by notarypa on 5/9/06 10:18am
Msg #118544

I could if I needed to as I carry a injet all in one in my car (my services are truely mobile). But I always request that the borrower to make a copy of their ID prior to the appointment--I do this when confirming the appointment.

Reply by JO_PA on 5/9/06 2:39am
Msg #118479

I've been in this business for quite a while and have never asked a borrower to see a credit card for the purpose of ID, nor has a lender ever asked for a copy of a card for ID. I usually request that the borrowers make copies of their driver's licenses before I arrive for the signing, that way we're not scrambling to get a copy.
If the borrower requests a second form of ID, there are plenty of forms if ID other than credit cards, such as a current tax statement, utility bill, insurance card, work ID, etc. I've had several borrowers who included a dredit card on the copy if their ID. I promptly tore it off and returned it to them and explained that it wasn't safe to give out their credit card numbers to ANYONE!
As for initialing every page, it is overkill! It's a waste of your time and the borrowers. Unless the instructions specifically require it, don't bother. I've gone to borrowers houses at least a dozen times since the first of the year for resigns because the first notary did an overkill with the signatures and initials. The only document I have the borrowers initial, even though it is not required by the lender, is the RTC. Citibank is one lender that doesn't have a signature line on the RTC, and I want the lender to know for sure that the borrower is aware of the recission date.

Reply by notarypa on 5/9/06 10:28am
Msg #118551

I am in support of using supporting documentation. Once again, I do not use a cc for the sole purpose of ID. It is supporting and I there have been MANY instances where lenders have asked me to get a copy of the credit card for supporting documentation. I have NEVER had an issue with overkill. However, I have had many signing services, title companies and lenders tell me they they rely on the fact I am so very through. For your edification, my refi's average about 30 minutes from start to finish, so the initals are not time consuming addition. We each choose to run the "details" of our businesses differently. That is what sets each one of us apart. I respect what others do as it works for them. What I do works for me, gives me peace and I know I have done all that I could. I see each closing through to the end.......regardless if I have to go the extra mile ....I don't consider it extra its what needs to be done to get it DONE. That's what people pay for when they call me and my prices reflect my level of service.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/9/06 9:25am
Msg #118513

Re: newly confused in PA - Initialing

**1. I have read, or possibly misunderstood, two conflicting descriptions of when to have borrowers initial forms. Do they have to initial every page in the package or just the pages where there is a spot for it? **

This is a signing agent question that I can answer with a degree of intelligence.

My policy is
(1) if borrowers ask to, I do not say "no."
(2) I do not tell them to if it is not required by the instructions in my package.


On your other question - just as an aside be sure to learn your notarial rules. I do not explain the AKA, I just get it completed. I feel it speaks for itself.