Posted by Anonymous on 5/12/06 1:04am
Msg #119357
question about "standard" fees
I am new to the business and have been trying to research it as much as possible. I find this forum to be fairly informative, but it's very obvious many of you aren't supportive of newbies. This is very understandable being that they will be competing with you for business.
What I have had the most difficulty finding out is what the standard fees are for my area (Phoenix, AZ). I have noticed several posts on several websites of people complaining that newbies and/or others are charging below the "standard" rates and costing them business.
Question: Is there somewhere to find out what the "standard" rates are for different services in my area so that I don't offend the experienced by charging too low?
Thank you
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/12/06 2:55am
Msg #119360
from some of the responses that I have seen posted on this web site, some of the experienced people that post here do not want to be bothered by newbie questions. I am a newbie and I have found that if you are working for a SS to take what they will pay unless it is less than $50 and charge additional fees for faxes, e-doc's. Charge extra for travel. It all depends upon what you are doing also. Some SS have set fees and once you have been established with them for a while, you can start charging extra. I personally will do what I can to get the business because everyone needs to start somewhere and as with any industry, maybe the experienced need to lower their rates since it is slow and there has been a increase in the amount of agents out there. They should not take it out on the newbies though. Thats all part of rolling the dice when doing business for yourself.
| Reply by Kelly M Robertson on 5/12/06 7:59am
Msg #119372
You got it wrong Anon 71 ...
I Don't like Quotes, but I'm doing it for this one - You said,
"... maybe the experienced need to lower their rates since it is slow... "
Anon, you've got to be kidding. Gas for me yesterday was $3.57 a gal. Experienced and Professional Signing Agents don't lower their fees - they work smarter. Like shrinking their service area and standing fast with their fees knowing that their clients (which are more likely escrow/title or loan officers who ask for them) will, will, will continue to pay them what they are worth. Yes, I have seen a decrease in signings, but I'm still working with the clients that know I do a good job and can depend on me and lately, I've been hearing from some new clients because I have been helping myself. How? By marketing more and recognizing my existing clients with some nice "thank you's" which can be something cheap like a Starbucks giftcard. Things like this go a long way - it costs money to make money. Ten bucks could earn you thousands.
The cream always rises to the top and in hard times with a great deal of competition for some or many, this is my prediction of what will happen again: Those that never liked this type of work will quit; those that never really got past a few signings a month will quit and those that lowered their fees but continue to be slow will quit; those who got lazy and didn't market and sign up with more companies and improve their profiles, and get listed on more websites, and "up their game" will quit.
Suggesting that experienced signers lower their fees due to "competition" is insulting to me. While I don't understand your, "rolling the dice" analogy, I agree that some more experienced agents don't want to help newbies. The reason is clear - they worked very hard, some for years, at developing their craft. Why would they want to 'give it away"? There's a great deal of gratification in the end for working hard for something, earning it. The orange search button (or the search feature on many message boards) really has all your answers! Just take the time and initiative to use them and soak in all the outstanding information, suggestions and leads that are already available for *free*, just waiting for you. I tell all my new students that when they peruse the message boards, read and learn - don't post.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 5/12/06 12:48pm
Msg #119458
My turn to quote you
You said "The cream always rises to the top..."
Everyone keeps talking about how it's slowed down. There are less refis being done, I'm seeing mortgage and title companies letting people go left and right, and notaries are getting out of the business. You know what? I'm just as busy as I've always been. Why? Because the sludge is sinking to the bottom of the barrel. Instead of working with 10 or 15 signing agents, companies only have enough business to work with two or three. The cream of the crop. Quality, expertise, service. In the long run, it wins out over cut rate fees every time.
And anon71 is wrong about another thing. I don't think there's a single person here that doesn't want to help newbies (not that anon71 is listening to our advice as evident by their post). We just demand some effort.
| Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/12/06 4:05pm
Msg #119514
Well said, Kelly....
I hope some folks take heed. I've been saying that since the "drought" began, and lo and behold, it's sprinkling.
Meaning, it was slow a few months and the $40-$50 calls were almost all I got for about 2 months. Now, the phones are ringing again, with regular fees.
I keep hearing from TC's and Lenders that they are tired of the SS route, as there are so many newbies out there, not knowing WHAT they are doing, not knowing notarial procedures, etc.
As a matter of fact, some of my older clients actually apologized and gave me a raise: they know with me, it will be a one-time signing w/o errors, and they appreciate that.
I spent those 2 months marketing with little promos, and it has paid off, I now have 5 new clients, some locally, CASH clients.
And, yes, the cream ALWAYS rises to the top.....
That means the "junk" must fall to the bottom, wouldn't you agree?
| Reply by Leon_CO on 5/12/06 8:02am
Msg #119373
Anon, I'm a "newbie" myself, so don't take this the wrong way. Do a search. Enter key words like "fee", "fees", ... etc. and you'll get a lot of information. That's what I did. And I'm still learning.
The reason I suggest this is because, there really is no definitive answer. It depends on so many things. It can depend on the type of loan package, or the signing service you're working with. It can depend on the mood of the person offering you the job. For example, I was on my way to a closing and I got a call from a woman who sounded desperate. It was around the end of the month -- a very busy time. She asked, "How much do you charge for a 1st and 2nd? I said, "$150". She said, "I'll give you $200!" She actually ended up paying me $300. She couldn't find anyone else and was willing to pay whatever it took to get someone to close this loan for her. On the other hand you'll get a few companies who will try to pay you as little as they possibly can. I was once offered $30 to do a closing. Of course I told the person, no.
Someone probably took that $30. So a lot depends on you. How badly do you want to do the closing? Are you in a position to name your fees and stick to them? Or are you the type of person who doesn't want to haggle and will take whatever you're offered?
So again, do a search. Get some ideas on what people charge for various services. Find out what different companies are paying. And if you want someone to bounce your ideas off of, feel free to email me at [e-mail address].
Good luck.
| Reply by Stamper_WI on 5/12/06 9:16am
Msg #119395
You have to figure what it cost you to do business. Like the cost of running your car (keyword "cost of driving" cost of supplies and equipment. then theres the E&O, Bond educational materials, memberships, phone, internet and all those other little things that add up fast. That is what it costs you to break even and the work part is so far not figured in. Figure the avg time it takes to do a loan. I don't know what minimum wage is now but you should figure at least that. If you do, tighten your belt or find something else to do. $50 signings are understandable if you lack experience. I am sure the SS have figured that out. But you should always try to negotiate the fee higher. I fail to see how one can manage to earn a living at this with $50 signings unless they have free housing, health and car. Even then they would be breaking even at the best!
I have been self employed for years and always have done a business plan every year and re evaluate how I am doing and setting goals for the new year both long term and short. For example, you need a major purchase like a car. What does it take to buy that car and how much do you need to make to add that expence? Thats how much more you need to make just for that expence. This is very simplified but I think you get the idea. Numbers don't lie. It pays to listen to them.
Now, on top of that you have to determine if your services are worth your fee to your clients. The world does not owe you a living. Constantly improve your skills. Organize yourself in a way that you can evaluate the needs of the client and see how it is "do able". Personally if you expect to stagnate and get by with the knowledge and skills you have now, you might as well go work in a factory. There's lots of repetition there. I spend a lot of time researching the market for this business and networking. I also find ways to market myself right down to biz cards at the Kwik trip. Takes other peoples ideas and build and improve on them.
You have to be creative...thats the fun part of working for yourself.
| Reply by Sher_AZ on 5/12/06 8:55am
Msg #119385
Dear Anon. Since you are in AZ as a newbie you can click on a link thru the NNA to see what the basic fees are recommended by zip code. If I remember right the NNA has a sort of "just starting" profile of suggested fees by zip code. Certified at one level, Non-Certified a lower level. I would strongly recommend that you start no lower than $85.00 if you are brand new & double check every detail of your loan doc's before you send them back to the lender. Nothing hurts our professional reputation more than to have new folks screwing up on the assignments & not knowing it. Most Co's will call back & let you know you screwed up, others don't they just hire someone else to go back & fix it but it cost them $$$ if the loan doesn't close, so be careful & double check your work. By the way if you don't belong to the NNA there are a lot of good books available (one of which I consider my bible) that can help you.
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/12/06 12:42pm
Msg #119455
I thank you all for all of your help and input. I have done the search on this site putting in the word "fees". I got a page of posts that all had the word fees in them. None of them really gave any information about fees since almost every post has that word in it. I have derived the basic charges just from the myriad posts on here, but hadn't seen anything about what people charge for the add-ons.
As for checking the NNA and other sites, I thought I had pretty well covered them and clicked all of the links. I did find on a few of them that they offer "pricing", but only to paying members. I understand charging for this inforamaion, but that brings on my other dilemma, which group/s to join? What certifications are necessary? etc.
I do thank you all for your help.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/12/06 1:01pm
Msg #119463
You have to be willing to spend money to make money... I joined a lot of things and then didn't renew the ones that didn't pay off. People cannot give you all the answers... you have to take things into your own hands and be willing to give as well as receive. I know that some people will say "Don't join the XYZ because it stinks" but yet for me it was an excellent investment. Other people will rant and rave about ZYX and I have gotten little from it. What does that tell me? Areas are different and I would be better off with my own marketing research and 'trial and error' based on my area.
I'm just curious, have you become a member here yet or are you still waiting to see if it is worth it?
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/12/06 1:20pm
Msg #119475
I have not joined here yet. I have not joined any website, or association, or group yet because I was not fully set up and prepared yet. I do intend to join at least a few in the next week or so. I guess I'm just figuring out which ones to start with since they all claim to do pretty much the same thing.
As for joining here...I was honestly a bit reluctant. For the $119 fee here I could join 2 other companies. I was also a little put off in the beginning when I tried to order some supplies and after waiting several days for an email response they told me they were too busy and I should order them elsewhere.
Thank you for your input.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/12/06 1:24pm
Msg #119476
Have you done any signings yet?
Did you go to school or classes? Who did you get your certification from?(I'm assuming nobody yet???) How did you hear about this?
I am asking these questions with a goal of trying to give you some direction...
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/12/06 1:37pm
Msg #119477
Re: Have you done any signings yet?
I don't have a notary certification, primarily because I have heard so many varying opinions on the necessity of them.
I am a licensed Realtor and got into loan processing about 2 years ago. I was then hired by Countrywide and sent through the Countrywide University. I have had tremendous upheaval in my personal life over the past year and not able to keep the long tedious hours and I don't really enjoy lying to people. Anyway...I know mortgages, terms, processes, etc., very well. I also have a paralegal certificate and am trained in fingerprinting. I had my notary from when I was office manager of a court reporting firm and just kept it.
Basically, my intent is to combine these things to make money to supplement my retirement income. I know the benefits, the risks, want control of my time, and really try not to do things half-a**ed.
I'm doing a land auction tomorrow as my first real assignment.
Thank you for any direction.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/12/06 1:58pm
Msg #119485
Re: Have you done any signings yet?
Well in my experience in speaking with the representatives of Title Companies that I work for... certifications ARE necessary. Just as Countrywide put you through CU to get trained, having the certifications means that you care enough about this career and are serious enough about it to invest in it. It all goes together. Are you going to care about it enough to spend the money on the right printer with enough memory to do what we do? On a good printer so you don't call them at the last minute with an emergency? On extra drums and toners to have on hand so you don't get stuck last minute with no supplies? On quality paper so that the docs don't run and bleed? On secondary Email accounts in case you get blocked (which does happen)? On Cellphones with good coverage so they can reach you if they need you? On nice clothes and a professional briefcase? Are you going to look the part and talk the part? If you think certs are a waste of time and money, this would tell me something if I were looking at your business card or profile.
I WOULD become a member here and keep your profle updated and very professional. My membership here has paid off well.
I would also become a member and get certified with at least 3 other places but out of respect for where I am, I won't post them here.
I would then ask, when I got calls "Where did you get my info?" and write it down so that you know which ones to renew.
I have one more little thing to add... if you left CW because you don't want to lie to people, maybe this is not the job for you. Don't get me wrong... we don't lie to anybody... but if you think that sitting there and watching some little old lady with OK credit sign a horrible loan that you know they raked her for doesn't make you feel like crapola, you are wrong. Some loans are good and sometimes, even the bad ones are needed at the time but you still feel like crap when you see it.
I don't know what happened with your order other than to say that I have never had a problem. If they were honest enough with you to tell you to go somewhere else then they obviously care about you getting whatever you ordered 'in time.' I guess I would try them next time around.
If you think you know enough about loans and signings you can always take the tests without the courses... FYI.
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/12/06 2:14pm
Msg #119489
Re: Have you done any signings yet?
Thank you very kindly Angelina.
As for everything you suggested in the first paragraph...not a problem, it's covered.
As for the certifications...I didn't think or say they were a waste of time. I have just seen a lot of conflicting opinions as to which ones are better and whether or not they are necessary. I asked the owner of the company that just hired me about certifications and he said he thought they were a waste of money.
I will take your suggestions to heart, and do truly appreciate your help.
If you are willing to share the names of the companies with the best certifications you can email me at [e-mail address].
Thanks again
| Reply by MichiganAl on 5/12/06 5:59pm
Msg #119540
Great stuff Angelina, you said it all.
And just to reiterate, premier membership here definitely pays off. Regardless of your bad experience (which I find very surprising), NotRot is one of the first places that companies go to when they're looking for a signing agent. Keep your profile current and informative, professional and typo free. A link to a simple website doesn't hurt either. Getting certifications is kind of a toss up. They mean little once you gain experience and companies don't put much weight in them, but if you're new and have no experience, well, you need to have something that shows you've got some skills. In this business, I think it's worth it in the long run to spend a few bucks on training and marketing. There's so much competition, you need to rise above and stand out.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/12/06 6:23pm
Msg #119549
Re: Have you done any signings yet? Nice post Angelina. n/m
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/12/06 1:52pm
Msg #119482
Re: question about "standard" fees - I buy all supplies
I can at this website. I seem to get mine in just a few days. Maybe because I am a member? The discount is nice.
| Reply by dickb/wi on 5/12/06 12:43pm
Msg #119456
there is no such thing as standard fees......when that......
begins to happen you become the subject of an anti trust suit by the government.....just ask the board of Realtors in el paso texas....along with jail time some of them had fines of over $10,000...................
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