Posted by Anonymous on 5/23/06 10:11pm
Msg #121846

title company forges signing

I had a title company that did not advise me that the borrower was married. The non-borrowing spouse was not named in any of the documents, mortgage, TIL, RTC, etc and the signing had taken place in a hotel lobby with only him present. The Title Company did not give any notice to the SS in the order as well. This was realised after the documents were sent back and they asked me if I would go back to the non-borrowing spouse to have her sign. I advised them of the date of the documents and they would have to be redrawn and I would do the signing for another trip fee since this was not a notary error. They disagreed and sent the documents back to the borrower and wrote into the notary certificate the non-borrowing spouses name as if I had witnessed and stamped the signature on that date. How should I address this issue?

Reply by John_NorCal on 5/23/06 10:22pm
Msg #121847

...How should I address this issue?...
How about the SOS office for starters, then whatever agency that regulates title companies in your state.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 5/23/06 10:24pm
Msg #121848

Address it strongly

And I suggest you email PAW. Do a simple search in this forum and you'll get his contact information. He's done a great deal of research in Florida in regard to this problem. He'll give you good advice.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/23/06 11:08pm
Msg #121857

I see you are in FL
On Thursday I am having lunch with the CFO and I am going to talk to him about this kind of forgery. I had one where I was the second signer, and the first signer had, correctly, lined through the names on her notary certificate of the signers whose signature she didn't notarize. I did the second part and attached my notary certificate for the two signers I did the signing for. When the mortgage was recorded, the original notary's certificate had been altered, they had added the two names back on to the original certificate as if the first notary had notarized their signatures, and my notary certificate had been removed.


Where in Florida are you?

Reply by MichiganAl on 5/24/06 12:01am
Msg #121869

Other issues aside...

You could have prevented this situation. I have a script that I follow whenever I make my initial contact with the borrower. That script includes verifying the signing location, telling them the i.d. requirements, giving them my phone number, AND letting them know that if they are married or there is anyone else on title, that person needs to be present as there will be required docs to sign. If you'd have done that, there never would have been an issue. You can save yourself a worthless trip, show your companies your value, and save the borrowers additional hassle. Damage prevention is one of the many things that separate a quality signing agent from a so-so one.

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 5/24/06 12:13am
Msg #121872

Re: Other issues aside...

Great post Al. I think this should be added to #33325.

Reply by PAW on 5/24/06 9:02pm
Msg #122133

Re: Other issues aside...

Except that Al's statement is not always correct. It is prudent for the NSA to contact the title company and/or lender if the borrower is married and the spouse is not listed on the expected documents, but there are many reasons the spouse may not be listed. For example, in Florida (and the original poster was posting from Florida as shown in the "Posted by" line), spouses typically do need to sign the "legals" on their primary property, if that property is their homestead. Florida is not a community property state so there will be many times that a spouse is not required to sign the "legals" for non-homestead property. Also, even though we are a homestead state, there may be a situation in which the homestead rights are waived. I'm sure there may be other reasons that a spouse does not need to sign the 'legals' on a given property.

All in all, the NSA does not have all the facts to make the determination if spouses need to be present and sign documents that do not have the spouses name on them and there are no instructions stating that a spouse needs to sign. I submit that an NSA that takes it on themselves to have a spouse sign without direction to do so, may be guilty of UPL and certainly may not be in the best interests of the borrower, title company and lender.

Reply by PA_NOTARY on 5/24/06 6:11am
Msg #121886

WAIT A MINUTE.... AL

MY STATE IS NOT A DOWER STATE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE SPOUSE TO BE THERE. I ASK, BECAUSE THE MORTGAGE COMPANY REQUIRES IT (MAYBE) MOSTLY. AND I HAVE SEEN WHERE THE BROKER LIES ON THE APPLICATION AND THE BORROWER IS NOT EVEN AWARE OF IT.
THEREFORE, IF SPOUSE IN NOT ON TITLE, NOT IN DOWER STATE, THEN YOUR INFORMATION IS OF NO VALUE TO THIS QUESTION/COMMENT.

Reply by MichiganAl on 5/24/06 7:48am
Msg #121896

Please pay attention

The poster is from Florida. Florida is a dower state.

Reply by thnotary_NY on 5/24/06 10:00am
Msg #121935

Re: Please pay attention

And what I've seen advised and do (when I think of it) is to either draw a \ under the name(s) to fill the space or write ONLY after the names.

Reply by Janlee_MI on 5/24/06 11:30am
Msg #121975

When you check there name always ask if they are married.

Al, you are so right. Alot of time they get married after the purchased the property and they don't know the wife has to sign because they are not on title.. Also the bank don't think about asking especially if they are in a non dower state.

This is our job to know our state laws to make sure a title policy can be issued and the mortgage can be recorded correctly.

Reply by janCA on 5/24/06 11:50am
Msg #121978

what about the title co?

Am I missing something?? This still does not excuse the title company and their actions in this situation. You can bet this was probably not the first time they blatantly broke the law.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/24/06 12:20pm
Msg #121989

"I advised them of the date of the documents and they would have to be redrawn "

Is there a Florida law that requires the date of the docs to match the date of the signing? If not, then I think you overstepped your bounds here; it's certainly not our job to determine whether docs need to be redrawn or not.

As for the rest, I agree that you should report them to the SOS and let them handle it.

Reply by Barb25 on 5/24/06 2:50pm
Msg #122033

Hooray for your answer. It is up to lender as to whether docs need to be redrawn as you said. The issue is still the illegal act of title company. How does someone think notary is responsible in any way or less competent for not having uncovered borrowers circumstances.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/9/06 9:22am
Msg #124925

Thanks for the suggestions. This signing was done in a hotel lobby instead of the borrowers home and there was no indication of a spouse. I have had many instances where at the closing the spouse was there but not on the docs and I had sign. The non-borrowing spouse must sign the mortgage, TIL, RTC, Itemization. The underwriter for the lender should have caught this, but is no excuse for the Title company to write the non-borrowing spouses name on the same certificate of the notary instead of redrawing or attaching a seperate certificate at the time of signing of the spouse.