Posted by bowie_MD on 11/27/06 8:53pm
Msg #162369

Affidavit of survey matters

anyone familiar with this doc? It may only be in Prince Georges County Maryland.
It asks the borrower to swear that he has examined the Survey and asks for company name and date of survey.
how many refi-borrowers can find their survey?
So what do you do if the borrower can not answer?

Reply by PAW on 11/27/06 9:00pm
Msg #162371

Survey Affidavits are very common, at least here. And most borrowers know exactly where their survey is because typically they needed to provide a copy with the loan application.

However, if the borrower cannot locate their survey at the signing, have them fill in the blanks with "unknown" or something similar so there would be no blank areas on the affidavit.

Whenever I call to confirm the appointment, I always ask the borrowers to have three things: (1) copies of the ID; (2) the declaration page from their insurance policy or the name and address of the company and agent; and (3) a copy of their survey. Chances are, you will need the information from these documents for the signing.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 11/27/06 9:31pm
Msg #162381

Some states require that surveys be recorded at the land records office, just like deeds. Most states that don't require it at least allow it. So the borrower may be able to get a copy there. It might even be on-line.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/27/06 10:03pm
Msg #162388

In addition to the other information, I believe this Affidavit is for title insurance purposes.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/27/06 10:17pm
Msg #162392

Then wouldn't it be nice if the title company includes the appropriate page of the survey to which they require the borrower to read in the title docs? JMHO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/27/06 10:34pm
Msg #162397

Re: Yep - it would be nice..

but in lieu of the survey the attorney I worked for in CT would just put in "N/A" in that spot.

I've come across a couple Survey Affidavits recently which actually gave the borrowers a choice (a) I have examined the survey..." or (b) a survey was done on the property prior to my purchasing it and I have not examined it..."

Reply by Ndwa on 11/27/06 10:46pm
Msg #162399

9.9 of 10 borrowers I've signed don't know or have no clue what a survey is. It's nice that some TC include a check box where it state that BO didn't receive or have no knowledge of one since their owner of the property.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/27/06 10:49pm
Msg #162400

Ah, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride... n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/27/06 11:07pm
Msg #162405

Quoting from Paul: ***However, if the borrower cannot locate their survey at the signing, have them fill in the blanks with "unknown" or something similar so there would be no blank areas on the affidavit.***

Very good direction - maybe or not those items are available, but Paul does know his business well in Florida enough to ask for it.

Also from Paul: ***Whenever I call to confirm the appointment, I always ask the borrowers to have three things: (1) copies of the ID; (2) the declaration page from their insurance policy or the name and address of the company and agent; and (3) a copy of their survey. Chances are, you will need the information from these documents for the signing.***

Again, something that Paul deals with everyday, because of his area, and survey affidavit requirements.

Some other areas in the country (might) require a survey affidavit, but more than likely, they are properties that have legal descriptions that are a bit....lacking, in the lenders eyes...in my experience in California, or if the lender is an east coast lender...regardless, a survey affidavit is specific to lender reqs (with some very extenuating circumtances from the title company, but I don't imagine you know those).

For other CA lenders? Hello...."What's a survey affidavit?????"

So...in a nutshell, Susan Fischer, the survey affidavit is NOT universal, so your thought that "wouldn't it be nice if the title company includes the appropriate page of the survey to which they require the borrower to read" in the title docs? Is similar to asking Santa to include everyone from John Boy to Mary Ellen in their Christmas List.

Further it shows a lack of understanding in what is entailed in a survey. In California, it requires a surveyor to go out....survey the land, plot cornerstones and markers in order to plot the land - it IS NOT cheap.

If title companies agree about those boundaries, that original surveyor's work might become of record...IF and only IF it is right (the TC determines...they are the experts). If not? The next owner can start again.....sigh - it'll be expensive.

The title company is expanding to insure coast to coast - and they do have requirements. Unless the Title Company has SPECIFICALLY requested a survey affidavit then your comment in general is not appropriate and not best suited to specific requirements of the underwriter of the title company.

The Lender Req's (written instructions to the notary) could differ tremendously.

Just be careful when you equate the title company responsibility of a survey to what the lender requirements are. It is VERY and quite different, and DESERVES the distinction.

If you would like further information in regard to California Survey's, Susan, please email me at [e-mail address].

Learning is good -kudos to you, but best to make sure you know of what you speak - others could be mis-informed.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/27/06 11:41pm
Msg #162412

Thanks, TitleGalCA. Eye opener. My off-hand remark

did not take into consideration the technicalities, and proves utterly my ignorance of a survey affidavit. My point was, that if this is an important document, then it might not be best for the consumer to be given a blank affidavit to deal with at the table. Or, in the case of being forewarned by the NSA, that a copy of the survey must be produced in order to complete this important document at the table. Placing the onus of insuring the document is completed seems outside the perameters of a witness signing. And obtaining a copy of the survey may prove infinitely more of a challenge than, say, obtaining a copy of an ID in some rural communities. I certainly had no intention of misleading anyone, or proposing a demand. You teach a great class. Thanks again.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/28/06 12:15am
Msg #162418

Re: Thanks, TitleGalCA. Eye opener. My off-hand remark

Susan - Girl you aren't the first!

***that if this is an important document, then it might not be best for the consumer to be given a blank affidavit to deal with at the table. ***

Think the Beach Boys...."Wouldn't it be nice....(Brians voice here)..."

The truth is that things are very different in all parts of the country. To Blanket-Blame the Title Company is something I have to...."Just Say No" to.

I see over and over again on this board that everything is the fault of the title company. It is so wrong. So very wrong. It is the Title Company that protects and appreciates the Independent Notaries position, and they (the TC and the notaries) work hand in hand. So important.

Just my pet peeve. Thanks for the chance to support it.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/28/06 12:35am
Msg #162422

So if there is no standard, but there are boiler-plate

'survey affidavits' for which the average consumer is responsible for completing nationwide, where does one look for direction? Calling the SS? The LO? These blank spaces...how is one to fill them?

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/28/06 12:44am
Msg #162424

It's all about the language on the cert

and if it meets the 2006 standards for jurats. An affidavit requires a jurat (without practicing UPL, for those taking apart this post).

If the Affidavit/Jurat meets the 2006 req's, you're good to go. If it doesn't? Attach you're own, with the right language.

Folks, don't make this more difficult that it is - without intrepreting anything... I like to boil things down to the most common denominator.

Take care, and Happy Holiday to you all!!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/28/06 1:01am
Msg #162435

But TitleGalCA, it's about the blanks in the doc... n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/28/06 1:14am
Msg #162441

Re: But TitleGalCA, it's about the blanks in the doc...

An affidavit has to meet CA req's.

If the concern is the "information" contained in the blanks? Susan, feel free to fax to 805-278-7310 and I'll call you tomorrow, my pleasure! Really - not a problem.

Have a good evening =)

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/28/06 1:29am
Msg #162443

Will do, and big smiles to you! n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/28/06 1:33am
Msg #162444

Regardless of the language, how can I notarize a blank doc? n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/28/06 1:51am
Msg #162447

you can't, but fax to me manana w/contact info =) n/m

Reply by Gary_CA on 11/28/06 12:26am
Msg #162421

An aside on surveys and California.

You don't see the survey affidavit but if you read the fine print in the standard Western Region Exception of your title policy you'll see that "issues that would be discovered in a survey" are a standard exception.

Doesn't matter to notaries much, but if you're buying or selling it does.

Real Estate agents have to make sure they don't pontificate too much about lot lines and whether or not the house is actually on the lot. Usually it's a no-brainer but not always. If the buyer finds a major lot line flaw that costs him thousands guess where he looks for compensation two minutes after he finds out it's not covered in his title insurance... poor little ol' Realtor. E&O covers the major damage but (unlike our little notary policies) they usually have a deductible that looks more like a house payment than a car payment. Ouch.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/28/06 12:39am
Msg #162423

Re: An aside on surveys and California.

***Doesn't matter to notaries much, but if you're buying or selling it does. ***

Yes, you are right - it doesn't matter to notaries (much). Much? It doesn't matter at all!!!!

It is NO concern to notaries, other than to make sure the acknowledgement or affidavit wording is correct, that is all.

A buyer or seller is another matter. For the purpose of this post/thread, it's moot. A notary should pay attention to the language of the certificate and measure whether it's acceptable to the State and to the notary.

That's all.

Reply by PAW on 11/28/06 7:35am
Msg #162458

We're not "just notaries"

As a signing agent, it is imperative that you know the commonly used docs in your area. Here, for example, there always needs to be a current survey and/or survey affidavit with every real estate transaction, including refinances. It's just the law of the land. Underwriters, both lender and title, typically need to ensure the perfection of the title for title insurance purposes, and to ensure there is no pending litigation concerning the property, such as boundary disputes, fence lines, etc.

Out of staters who purchase homes in Florida also learn a lesson about the legal description. Invariably, Florida does not use street addresses for anything but the postal service. Everything is lots & blocks, meets & bounds or other methods of property description as identified in the Land Acquisition Survey Standards. Most Florida residents, especially those who have recently purchased their homes, recognize their legal description, or at least can identify variances when they read it. This has prevented incorrectly prepared deeds and mortgages from being recorded in many instances, especially with new home purchases.

Reply by MelissaCT on 11/28/06 12:17pm
Msg #162507

CT survey affidavits usually

state that either there have been no improvements, etc. since the last survey dated blank, by blank company or that the borrowers have not seen the survey & that to their knowledge there are no boundary disputes, rights of way, encroachments, easements, etc.

I don't know when the last survey was done on my property. The last one I found was in the early 90's (years before I purchased the property). There is an easement on my property that dates back to 1885 -- I did locate that in city land records & it is interesting to read the yellowed, handwritten page. The easement dates to before the house was built...

I've had 1 borrower in over 3 years pull out their survey to include the information requested on the affidavit. Each state is different.