Posted by Regina Sturdivant on 11/20/06 3:04pm
Msg #161283

Employer Refuses to compensate - Please give feedback!!!

Please Give Feed back to the following facts!

When I interviewed for the position I was asked at the time if I wouldn't mind doing a few notaries a month. At that time I said of course not. I really didn't mind doing a few notaries a month for my employer. I thought I'd be doing a generous favor for the company. I was not told that it was a job requirement. My being a notary is also not stated in my job description as a requirement.
When I came to the company I was already a commissioned notary. I have and have had my own business established as a mobile notary. The company had been made aware of this.
To this date, I have done way more than just a few notaries for the company. The Special Warranty Deeds coupled with the Quitclaim Deeds and the attached affidavits easily put me over 100 notary signings per month.
As a seasoned notary, my fees are $10.00 per signature. I understand that Chase employs the Closer and provides an added benefit to the closer’s position by offering to pay for their fees & costs of their Notary Commission. This benefit is offered in return for the Notary providing the service to the Company.

This has not been the case in my employment situation. Chase has not provided me any added benefit for already being a notary or offered any compensation for my additional services as a Notary. The company and I also did not come to any agreement where we had an understanding that I would provide these services free of charge and at my personal expense.

I would love to continue to provide this service to the company. As a Notary Public I cannot refuse to provide services if requested. I am, however, entitled to compensation for these services. This is not a free service. I do intend to keep my word to the company by doing a few notaries. But anything above and beyond that would need to be done in return for fair compensation.

I have contacted an attorney who completely agrees with me. Only he will only do cases that result in action lawsuits. I am only 1 right now.

Does anyone know of any attorney who understands that laws that we notaries are governed by?

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 11/20/06 3:18pm
Msg #161287

First... stop daying that you "do notaries"

You ARE a notary, and your PERFORM notarizations.... "doing notaries" sounds a little too kinky to me.

I too am in a similar boat. I was a notary before obtaining my current employment. I made it clear to my employer that DURING WORKING HOURS I will perform notarizations at no additional cost, since my starting salary took into account my commission.

IF and when they want to use my services OUTSIDE their building, I expect only a mileage compensation... again this is ONLY DURING WORKING HOURS.

If and whn they want to use my services AFTER working hours, I bill them through my company name at the same rate I'd charge anybody else.

This has worked for us so far.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/20/06 7:03pm
Msg #161327

Jersey Boy

**First... stop daying that you "do notaries" You ARE a notary, and your PERFORM notarizations.... **

Isn't that the truth? I have never heard people call in that in a law office, title company or from a lender. Imagine what they must think.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 11/20/06 3:19pm
Msg #161288

It's not in your job description to do notarizations for the company you work for, discuss this with your boss, reach some sort of reasonable decision that works for both of you.
It would be my opinion that you can refuse since you are not being paid, just because you are a Notary does not mean you can't refuse to notarize documents.
If your employer had paid for you to be commissioned and this was to be part of your job description at the onset, that is one thing. If you value your job and don't want to loose it, I would reconsider getting an attorney involved, speak with your employer on this. Is it your opinion your boss is not approachable on this issue......

Reply by Laura Vestanen on 11/20/06 4:57pm
Msg #161300

Employer's point of view - fyi

Please allow me to tell you how employers views this situation.

I'm not saying they are right or wrong, I'm just giving you their point of view because I have been in your position.

The employer has the odd idea that they "own" you during your work hours. If you happened to speak Greek, they would expect you to speak Greek at work without paying you extra. Since you can notarize, they expect you to do that during work hours. They think that when you are notarizing, you are not doing other work for them so they are already paying you for notary work.

Employers don't realize that our commissions belong to us and that we are assuming legal responsibility for all our notarial acts. The company E&O insurance won't cover us. I suggest you explain that to your boss in a calm, informative manner. Most bosses see us as Barbie Notaries because so many places (banks, etc) give free notary services. They don't realize the liablity we incur. Educate him.


If I were in your position, this is what I would lobby for:

*Employer pays for a new, larger E&O policy for my work. If he wants me to take on the additional liablity for his assignments, he can pay for additional coverage.

*Employer pays for all my supplies. If his 100+ notarizations a month eat through my journal, stamp, thumbprint pad, certificates, etc, he can pay for them.

*Employer pays for a lock to be put on my desk drawer so that I can take breaks without dragging along my seal and journal. I would have the only key. Show him the regulation that requires we never expose our equipment to misuse by others.

*Notarizations would be done during normal working hours only. If notarizations interfere with completing the rest of my duties within my standard 40 hour work week, any time over 40 hours is paid as overtime. You are allowed to refuse notary service requests if it means you will be working outside your normal hours.

Good luck!
Laura

http://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Your-Non-Loan-Notary-Services/dp/B000IB14YW/sr=11-1/qid=1164062105/ref=sr_11_1/104-0822671-8003100

Reply by BMoon_FL on 11/20/06 5:32pm
Msg #161309

Re: Employer's point of view - fyi

That is a very well thought out answer. I was an employer for 26 years and always did the things that you suggested. It worked really well for the notaries public and myself. It was clearly defined when they were hired that I would pay for their commisions, supplies, etc. and that they were free to use these things after hours as they might choose.

Hopefully, talking to her employer will resolve this.

Reply by Regina Sturdivant on 11/20/06 6:37pm
Msg #161323

Re: Employer's point of view - fyi

Thanks Laura,

The company is refusing to negotiate at this point. They now want to claim that I was informed in the interview that it was mandatory. They did not advise me of this. And it is not noted in writing anywhere that it is within my job description.

Reply by Gary_CA on 11/20/06 4:57pm
Msg #161301

Lawyer???? Who are you kidding?

There's no legal issue here. Your employer is free to show you the door and/or you're free to walk through it.

There's really not much to talk about here... I doubt it would be worth it to leave the job over the notarizations... on the other hand it probably isn't worth the expense of training someone new if you insist on being paid for them.

Ask for what you want and then act on his offer. It's pretty simple.

Reply by Ndwa on 11/20/06 5:25pm
Msg #161307

Re: Lawyer???? Who are you kidding?

The least you can ask for is reimbursement for your notary commission expense....Anything else would be just outside the door.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 11/20/06 5:29pm
Msg #161308

Re: Lawyer???? Who are you kidding?

A lawsuit? lol

I would have to agree with Laura and Gary. Your only avenue is to refuse to notarize on company time or resign your commission. I think it's referred to as located some where between the rock and the hard place. Usually major players in the company are not notaries only minor employees so your hourly or salaried compensation is all the employer feels is necessary. Here's a thought. Become an independent contractor hang around the lunch room all day and and work for notary fees. 100 X $10 = $1000 per month. I bet they would go for that.

Reply by Regina Sturdivant on 11/20/06 6:34pm
Msg #161322

Re: Lawyer???? Who are you kidding?

I think I too can agree with Laura and Gary. I will also consider you rsuggesstion of notarizing during lunch breaks and before and after my scheduled work hours. However, I do not intend to stop performing notaries for the company. That could be considered insubordination at this point.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 11/20/06 9:54pm
Msg #161356

Re: you perform NOTARIZATIONS--you don't perform notaries n/m

Reply by Michelle/AL on 11/20/06 5:37pm
Msg #161310

My Feedback

Regina, I can sympathize with you. I can't say I've been in your shoes but I understand your frustration. I don't know what state you work in and what those laws say about what you can and can't do (notary-wise) for your employer. If you already know then it's a moot point.
I agree with Laura's suggestions and I'd like to add the following (if it applies):

a) Explain that if you are required to do notarizations for the company then you must also avail yourself to notarize docs for the general public. You can't discriminate even during working hours who you notarize for and who you don't. Does your boss really want the "general public" lining up at your desk during working hours?

b) Is it time for you to renew your bond, e&o, certification? If so, use that as an excuse for scheduling a meeting with him/her to request that the company assist in the paying of those expenses. "My E&E and Bond's must be renewed by 1/1/07 and I'd like to submit a Check Request to accounting for those expenses. The total cost is $XYZ. Who should I talk to in accounting about this?" (Smile real big.)

Regina, you must speak up. If you don't, you'll feel that that you are being taking advantage of and that can lead to feelings of resentment and who knows what can happen from there (smile) However, before you speak to your boss write out on paper what you're asking for because once you get him/her to commit to an arrangement it will be hard to renegotiate it later. Scenario #1: They pay for everything - including new equipment so that you can take the ones you paid for home. Scenario #2: You pay 50%/They pay 50%. Scenario #3: They adjust your pay to recognize the additional work. Scenario #4: You stop notarizing at work altogether. You may come up with some additional scenarios on your own.

Don't forget to leave your emotions and your defense systems at home that day. Walk into that meeting with a smile and leave with a smile. Show them that you are a professional.

Good luck and I'd be interested in hearing how things turn out.

Reply by Dave_CA on 11/21/06 10:10am
Msg #161445

I disagree. At least for CA

In CA the employer does not have to allow the Notary to do motorization's for the general public during working hours.
8202.8. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a private
employer of a notary public who has entered into an agreement with
his or her employee pursuant to Section 8202.7 may limit, during the
employee's ordinary course of employment, the providing of notarial
services by the employee solely to transactions directly associated
with the business purposes of the employer.

The code also speaks about employer/employee agreements.

8202.7. A private employer, pursuant to an agreement with an
employee who is a notary public, may pay the premiums on any bond and
the cost of any stamps, seals, or other supplies required in
connection with the appointment, commission, or performance of the
duties of such notary public. Such agreement may also provide for
the remission of fees collected by such notary public to the
employer, in which case any fees collected or obtained by such notary
public while such agreement is in effect shall be remitted by such
notary public to the employer which shall deposit such funds to the
credit of the fund from which the compensation of the notary public
is paid.

Reply by Joan Robinson on 11/20/06 6:14pm
Msg #161316

At this point, I would be worried about keeping my job!!!!

I cannot believe you actually posted on a public board with YOUR name and YOUR employer's name and have stated you have contacted an attorney. You might just need one.

If I were in your shoes, I would beg, plead, even bribe Harry to remove this whole thread.

Joan-OH

Reply by Regina Sturdivant on 11/20/06 6:30pm
Msg #161321

Re: At this point, I would be worried about keeping my job!!!!

I realize I might be stepping on a few toes here. But, I'm not embarrassed and I'm not wrong. So, there really is no reason for me to attempt to hide it. The company has consulted with their attorney on the matter and is aware that pursuant to GC 8202.7, they should have entered into an agreement.
I do realize that they are within their rights to terminate at will. They can exercise that option if they want. I can only hope that they don't choose to retaliate in that manner. To do so would pose another issue.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 11/20/06 6:21pm
Msg #161319

Clarification, Please

What is your position in the company? It sounds as though you were hired as a closer. I believe that to be a closer, you must be a notary. Are you doing closings for the bank? If so, why are you complaining about doing what is definitely in your job description? Now when my commission came up for renewal, I'd expect them to pay for the commission, bond, etc as well as all the journals that you are presently using. If you are an employee, you want your salary, your benefits, being able to work 8 - 5 and then receive a bonus for every signature you notarize? Am I correct? I can not imagine any company being big enough that there would be 100 Warranty Deeds, QCDs and affadavits per month, every month unless the company was closing loans.

I agree with Joan/OH. You may be very lucky to even keep your job. I know that if I were your employer, I would quickly find a replacement for some one with that much avarice and expect me to pay them too.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/20/06 7:00pm
Msg #161326

Re: Clarification, Please

Yep. Agree with Dot and Joan.

She stated: ** was asked at the time if I wouldn't mind doing a few notaries a month. **

Your notary commission may have been the thing that pushed you to the top of the heap and got you hired. I absolutely love my job, my co-workers and would not do anything to jeopardize it related to legal use of my notary stamp. 8 out of 10 are notaries in that group so my stamp is lonely for many days in it's drawer.

If you like your job, don't screw it up...but then again, I have a really keen sense of taking care of what helps me earn. High sense of work ethic.

When I feel upset about using my notary stamp for an employer, I'll know I am in the wrong job.

(Remember, I am in Texas, not CA...maybe different.)

JMHO.

Reply by Brenda Stone on 11/20/06 10:02pm
Msg #161357

correction...shd be its, not it's. n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/20/06 7:19pm
Msg #161332

"Doing a few notaries a month" aaaawwwwwwwwwwwwww forget it!

Reply by SharonMN on 11/21/06 3:31pm
Msg #161509

Re: Statutory maximum fee does not = mandatory fee

Please keep in mind that just because there is a statutory maximum fee of $10 does not mean you must be paid $10 per notarization. You can charge $1 or $10 or nothing. Presumably your employer pays you adequately for your time or you would quit. There is no requirement that your employer pay you the maximum rate you would earn in private practice. If you were an attorney or a doctor working for a small company in this capacity, your employer would expect you to use your attorney or doctor license for company business during working hours without additional compensation (even if you took on after-hours work for which you billed $500/hour). You agreed when you accepted the job that your duties would include notarizations.

If your issue is that your job description is different than what was originally discussed, you should discuss that with your employer and see if you can agree on a change in job structure or compensation. But the issue is the same whether notarizations are involved or not. I notarize for my employer and personally I don't care whether I'm notarizing, making copies, or drafting documents at any given point during the day. I am being paid the salary I agreed to.