Posted by NotaryGirl71 on 11/6/06 6:43pm
Msg #157596

Fraud Detector Pen

All current IDs and driver licenses in California have 3 holograms on them that can only be detected by a fraud detector pen....

The other day I was at a signing and the letters on the borrower's driver license looked sort of funny so I checked his ID with my pen and there were NO holograms...it was a fraudulent ID and I refused the signing.

I encourage everyone in California to get one of these pens.

Reply by Traveling2U on 11/6/06 7:34pm
Msg #157611

Re: Fraud Detector Pen do you have this one

http://idhouse.com/md-630.htm this one is $20.00 I like to buy the one you have since you tested it and it worked how Cool is that ;-D

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/6/06 8:10pm
Msg #157615

This one is for counterfeit $, will it work on DL's? n/m

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/6/06 8:09pm
Msg #157614

Can these be purchased anywhere but through the computer?

What type did you get Notarygirl71 and how much was it? I really want to get one! Thank's for any help.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/6/06 8:38pm
Msg #157618

Re: Can these be purchased anywhere but through the computer

I may be wrong but I believe that Notary Girl is talking about the UV penlight. The pens used to detect counterfeit money are used to write on the bill and they turn a different color on a counterfeit bill. The UV lights light up the holographic images on the drivers' licenses. The UV pens are very convenient and are frequently used at nightclubs and other places. Some of the police departments use them also. They can be found in bar supply stores as well a police equipment stores. I believe that the much maligned XXX has one but it is terribly over priced. I don' t know where in CA you are but I do know places in the larger cities that carry them.

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 11/6/06 8:59pm
Msg #157619

Re: Can these be purchased anywhere but through the computer

Yes Charles CA you are correct...it is the UV penlight

I purchased mine from the NNA website for about $50...It basically looks like a pen and when you press the button it lights up the holograms on the ID.

I hope this has helped everyone Happy (and safe) signings to everyone

Reply by John_NorCal on 11/6/06 9:17pm
Msg #157621

Thanks Notary Girl , but try this link...........

$17.00 plus shipping total $24.18

http://www.technika.com/Sper/s330005.htm

Reply by Traveling2U on 11/6/06 9:38pm
Msg #157635

Re: Thanks Notary Girl , but try this link thanks

I have a 2006 ID Book but I'll like the pen better thanks for the link

Reply by Traveling2U on 11/6/06 9:31pm
Msg #157628

Thank you both very much n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/6/06 9:31pm
Msg #157627

I appreciate all the positive responses to this (goofy) thought, but no where in the CA approved notary training, nor in the notary handbook, does it advise notaries to look for holograms in the ID. No where. Nada. Zip.

You would think that if it were this important, the CA SOS might have mentioned it? Especially if it were left up to the notary to be Inspector Gadget, with a hologram pen. Is there a Dome of Silence that protects a notary who has refused a notarization because her Special Pen didn't approve the ID? (That would be good, I think - borrowers who can't pass the pen test might really be cranky).

Just curious.

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 11/6/06 10:43pm
Msg #157671

Good point...but if the UV pen ends up keeping me from going to court in the future because someone said they were someone they weren't then I am all for it.

This has happened to me TWO times and both times when I pointed out to the borrower "How weird but usually there are 3 holograms that show on the ID but it is not showing up on yours."...both borrowers did NOT get upset and tried to find another acceptable ID. The first time the borrower did have another form of primary id...but the 2nd time (the other day) they did not.

My guess...and again this is a guess only is that they were both possibly illegal aliens. It is VERY EASY for anyone to get fake ids these days.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/6/06 10:51pm
Msg #157675

"...both borrowers did NOT get upset and tried to find another acceptable ID. The first time the borrower did have another form of primary id"

So you determined that the driver's license was fake, then proceeded to notarize the same person with the same name because they gave you a different ID? Why would they have a counterfeit driver's license if that was really them? Wouldn't that be just a wee bit of a RED FLAG?

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/6/06 10:53pm
Msg #157677

Moniker: call me "snorting in Ventura" n/m

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 11/6/06 11:07pm
Msg #157687

Yes this was a red flag but she did provide me with another form of valid primary ID...next time this happens I probably will not though...the more experience I have the more cautious I have become

Reply by Pamela on 11/7/06 12:18am
Msg #157704

NotaryGirl71, Re: Fraud Detector Pen

Please read the following article:

Http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/08/05/DMV.TMP

There are many types of fraudulent I.D.'s being used in this country
(by both citizens and non-citizens alike). If this particular "borrower"
had illegally "purchased" an I.D. card or driver's license, directly from
a DMV state employee, the UV pen would have shown a "good" card.
Why? Because the I.D. and all its "security codes" would have been
authentic (although the information on it, such as the photo etc. . .
may be false).

These types of pens, only work on "cheaply made", fraudulent I.D. cards.
The more sophisticated the criminal, the more sophisticated the I.D.
(and crime).

"This has happened to me TWO times and both times when I pointed
out to the borrower "How weird but usually there are 3 holograms that
show on the ID but it is not showing up on yours."...both borrowers
did NOT get upset and tried to find another acceptable ID."

Count Your Blessings! The third, fourth or fifth time you may not be so lucky.
It only takes "one incident" for something to seriously happen.
What would you do if you had 3 or 4 "signers" and ALL their I.D.'s
did not pass the UV pen test?

If "legitmate" borrowers become upset when their interest rate is different
from that promised by their Loan Officer, you MUST expect the same from criminals.
when confronted with possible fraudulent identification (and activities).
(Example: A few months ago, I had a "legimate" borrower who literally threw the loan
package across the room and went into a rage, because the Loan Officer had lied to her.
Eventually she calmed down, signed the documents, the loan funded and I was paid).

Remember, when you enter these "borrowers" homes, most are going to be
complete strangers. You do not have any "history" on their background
(criminal or not). You only know what's inside the loan packet (and that too may
be erroneous).

It's your call, but I suggest not to take any more chances! It's not worth it!


Check this out too:

Http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/


Pam

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/7/06 8:22am
Msg #157726

"Illegal alien"???

It's up to the Lender to determine the legality of a borrower, not a function of the NSA.

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 11/7/06 9:54am
Msg #157750

Re: "Illegal alien"???

Sue I never said that it was the function of the NSA to determine the legality of the borrower!!! I said this is probably the reason why they had fraudulent ID. I am in Northern California and this is VERY common and fraudulent IDs are very easy for anyone to obtain.

I could care less if they are here legally or illegally...that is the function of our government. What I care about is propertly notarizing documents with proper ID.

Reply by Pamela on 11/6/06 9:50pm
Msg #157644

NotaryGirl71 Re: Fraud Detector Pen

I would be afraid to use one. Reason being, is that
someone using fraudulent identification, is obviously
dishonest. Many dishonest persons are greedy and
can become violent once their scheme is brought to light.

If you worked in a setting (i.e. bank) for which there was
security personnel, that's fine. However, I would not want
to be trapped in someone's home (?) telling them that their
I.D. is fake and that they are trying to commit fraud
(Unless of course, I carried a gun, badge and had back-up).

I would complete the signing as planned, and once away
from the threat, notify title etc. . .of the possible deception.

My reason for being overly cautious? I worked in social services
for almost 20 years. Unscrupulous people DISLIKE being
caught. But then, that's my experience. . .


Pam

Reply by Kristen_FL on 11/6/06 10:12pm
Msg #157658

Re: NotaryGirl71 Re: Fraud Detector Pen

I think I would do the same thing. If they're going to that much trouble to commit mortgage fraud, then who knows what else they're willing to do to make sure it goes through?

I would also do the signing, and then immediately alert anyone necessary once I was away from the home.

You never know what people are capable of. And you certainly don't want to be trapped in their home.


Kristen

Reply by Pamela on 11/6/06 10:40pm
Msg #157668

Kristen, Re: NotaryGirl71 Re: Fraud Detector Pen

Yes, there are many types of criminals. Mortgage scams
are on the rise. Desperate people (meaning those crimianls,
who think that they have been caught and may have to go to
jail) will do just about anything for their freedom. . . I'm a
notary not a law enforcement officer. I carry a "seal" not a
"shield" (smile).

Now, whenever I notarized someone, I take their
thumbprint. In the event, criminal charges are issued,
a thumprint is an excellent identifier (the culprit may
have a criminal record on file.).

If mandated, the journal may be used in court as evidence.
It will show the exact time and place, exactly what "I.D." was used
(fraudulent or not), how the person signed "their" name, etc. . .

Additionally, informing a "signer" that an I.D. is fraudulent,
puts the criminal "on notice". Next time, they will be better
prepared (i.e. have "no I.D." [where "credible witnesses" will
have to be used], etc. . .).

So no, I do not need to add more stress to my signing/notarial duties.


Pam

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/6/06 10:42pm
Msg #157670

Hell must have frozen over

Because I completely agree with Pam on this.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/6/06 10:50pm
Msg #157674

Re: Hell must have frozen over

Ice over Lava just doesn't make sense....except in this. I agree as well.

The thumbprint (not a blacklight pen, holographic or not, nor a Bond-like trench coat) work quite as well. Very good point, Pamela.

Reply by Pamela on 11/6/06 10:54pm
Msg #157678

TitleGal, Thank You! n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/6/06 11:03pm
Msg #157682

Re: TitleGal, Thank You!

Pamela - you make me insane regarding some of your posts, but this quiet, simple little fact (a thumb print) was right on. I always read Cali's posts because he's proven himself to be almost always right in regard to notary work. After his comment, I saw it too. You were right.

This is why....new notaries should read, question, read again, and sometimes (if uncertain) rely on those that have a reputation of sorts in a forum such as this. Cali is one that you can rely on. You'll get the advice with lots of spice on the side, but the advice is good.

Funny how all of us at one time or another forget the simplicity of what we do - although I like to think I know "what's what"....along comes a Pamela with the simple answer.

You still annoy me (in regard to this forum) but thank goodness you've dropped those gawd-awful exclamation points and I think (without knowing you) you're probably a good notary.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Reply by Pamela on 11/6/06 10:52pm
Msg #157676

Calinotary, Oh My Goodness. . .

miracles DO happen!

Pam

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/6/06 10:56pm
Msg #157679

Re: Calinotary, Oh My Goodness. . .

I guess that means neither of us is gonna hit the lottery anytime soon. Lightning rarely strikes twice.

Reply by Pamela on 11/6/06 11:12pm
Msg #157689

Calinotary, I Beg Your pardon. . .

I've hit the "big one" (SuperLotto), 4 or 5 times
(the most recent one, was a few weeks ago).

Unfortunatley, I WASN'T playing when the numbers hit!
Too busy with "signings and such". . .

Must remember to play. . .


Pam

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/6/06 10:20pm
Msg #157661

Re: Good thought Pam...

This type of situation might be a good time to implement the old "I'll affix my stamp when I get home" routine...and get out ASAP..

Reply by Pamela on 11/6/06 10:50pm
Msg #157673

Linda,

Exactly!

In California we are supposed to notarized
the person's signature, while we are there.

However, common sense has to prevail also.

My lying on the "borrower's" living room floor (black and blue,
with possible bullet wounds) isn't going to help anyone,
especially me! ("smile"


Pam

Reply by sue_pa on 11/7/06 7:12am
Msg #157721

different world

I assume you're saying this with a smile. If not, I sure am glad I live on the east coast. I have done A LOT of loans and have never, ever even come anywhere remotely near a situation where I would think I'd end up on someone's floor w/bullets in me. I have been a notary since 1974 and I personally (perhaps lucky or perhaps I am naive) have never come upon id that I suspect is fraudulent. Even when they don't have proper ID I have always felt the person before me was who they say they are - which creates another whole set of problems with our law changes here.

As to your comment above about a lady throwing the loan package and then you completing the loan later, that wouldn't have happened here. Scream and yell if you wish but don't throw anything or I'm out the door.

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/7/06 10:19am
Msg #157755

Well so much for the UV pen light, I always get a thumbprint

and will continue to do so. So glad you all responded with good input, although it wasnt my post, thanks.

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 11/7/06 4:13pm
Msg #157848

Re: Well so much for the UV pen light, I always get a thumbprint

Kathy please remember that this "good imput" is "opinions"

Check with the Secretary of the State before you listen to these "opinions"...I did

Reply by Pamela on 11/7/06 1:52pm
Msg #157806

Sue Re: different world

We all have different experiences (good and bad).

Having grown-up in the "big city" (Los Angeles) and working
with the public, I know how deceitful and violent *people can be.
Though I had a very nice childhood, many people did (and do) not.
*(Note: There are also many wonderful people too.)

There is much crime in today's world. A person needs to very careful
and to use "common sense" (especially when entering a stranger's home).
Unfortunately there are those persons, who for whatever reason,
end-up as a victim of a crime. For instance, some are "too trusting",
some are "in the wrong place at the wrong time", some play "Columbo"
(when they shouldn't) and with others it's their lifestyle choices.

Having worked many years in social services, you meet all kinds
of individuals. Years ago, when I first began, there was a client who
was engaged in fraudulent activity. She was a "very nice" person.
Having discovered the fraud, I immediately told her and stated what
the repercussions would be. Unfortunately, I turned my back to her,
and when I turned around, she hit me in both eyes. Lesson Learned.

And yes, I have encountered false names, false I.D.'s etc. . .(but not
as a notary or signing agent).

This is an interesting read (I am also a licensed real estate agent):

Http://realguard.com/news.htm


Pam