Posted by Mike Photon on 11/21/06 3:47pm
Msg #161512

Is it UPL?

In the short period I have been in the business, I have seen loan agents ripping off unsuspecting borrowers. A few months back, a poor old lady had a shock seeing the cost of the loan and prepayment terms on a package. He had told her there was no prepayment penality. So at the table when she saw the doc, I told her to check with LO. When she called his he said something like "Oh! Don't worry about it. Just sign it. I will take care of everything" and the poor lady signed. I kept wondering ever since - if I told the lady that the LO is a big AH and a liar, I know it is giving opinion, but how much trouble I can get myself into? I don't want to believe it is UPL. I know this guy would never call me again and I don't want his business anyways. But can I get sued for that? What are your thoughts?

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 11/21/06 4:03pm
Msg #161513

It's absolutely unprofessional, it doesn't matter if the LO

is a lying, coniving snake. You are there as a disinterested party. You inform the borrower what your role is as nsa before you start signing. As you go through the docs and you come to the RTC you explain it's purpose. That is all you do, nothing more. Never ever call the LO a name in front of the borrower. When I get out the copies for the bo I let them know that these are their copies. I physicaly put their signed copies of the RTC on the top of the stack, put them in an envelope and hand it to them. Mike you've been at this long enough to know how wrong giving an opinion is.

Reply by Stuart Posner on 11/21/06 4:05pm
Msg #161514

Re: Is it UPL?...IMHO no BUT....it COULD be slander....

"...if I told the lady that the LO is a big AH and a liar, I know it is giving opinion, but how much trouble I can get myself into?..." IMHO....LOTS and LOTS. I have worked with a few LO's who I know are ripping people off including their "own people", i.e. Latino LO's giving way bad rates to other Latinos. If I offer an opinion that "Joe" is a big AH and a liar, she may be happy, BUT if it gets back to "Joe", then he/she could sue you not only for losing THIS loan but for potential income loss. If you feel this way about "Joe", then you may want to talk in confidence to "Joe's" manager/supervisor and express your feelings (remember this is STILL only YOUR opinion). But I would NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a client how I feel about a particular LO (especially THEIR LO) to their face...even if they ask me. Remember, we are impartial witnesses not only to the loan signing but also to the ways the loans are being put together. If you have a concern, then don't accept any more signings with "Joe". Again, this is only my opinion....I am not an attorney and do not practice nor give legal advice. I may LOOK like a Dr. but I'm not one and don't play one on TV. (Good Luck Mike)

"Doc"

Reply by Gerry_VT on 11/21/06 4:15pm
Msg #161515

Re: Is it UPL?...IMHO no BUT....it COULD be slander....

A notary is supposed to assure that the signer understands the general nature of what he or she is signing. If it appears that the signer believes what was said on the telephone instead of what is printed in the document, and the disagreement involves a significant amount of money, I would inform the signer that I don't think he or she has an adequate understanding of what is being signed, and leave.

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 11/21/06 5:01pm
Msg #161520

LO says sign anyway

What about those telephone calls where they say they'll change something and tell the borrower to sign it anyway. I haven't been in this business long enough to know whether they can (change it) or not. In fact, I had this happen a few nights ago (2nd signing for these people) where the loan company was supposed to remove a bankruptcy judgement (from someone who had been on title) and it was a significant amt. of money and it was still on the HUD 1 and another document (I forget which one). The LO said to sign it anyway and they would take care of it. Should we allow this or tell borrower to ask for a redraw (before they call). I know I am a disinterested third party, but if I know that it can't be changed....?

I had another one where the LO told me that his company had bought down the prepayment penalty one year and there was no documentation of it in the package, it just contained the 3 year ppp that was supposedly going to be reduced to 2 year.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/21/06 5:12pm
Msg #161524

As an informed consumer

I live and breath the "beer truck theory". That states that what someone VERBALLY TELLS you today can go to h3!! in a handbasket if he gets hit by a beer truck tonight. If someone makes me a promise, I want it in writing and until I get it, I'm not signing squat. If that document magically appears I move forward because I've got something more tangible than he said/she said. Having said that it has been my sad experience to see some borrower's go for whatever their LO tells them because he/she has gained their confidence over the whole process. Is it my place to say something? Nahhhh, this is called a learning curve, we all have to learn eventually that things aren't always what they seem. Only one time have I mentioned my beer truck theory at the table and that BO immediately called his LO...ut oh, and requested he put his promise in writing. He was promised he'd receive it before his RTC expired, I never followed up...did my best but that's not really my place. I must remain neutral if I'm going to survive, you can't save everyone.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/21/06 5:12pm
Msg #161523

soul-balm

I spent years in wholesale sub-prime, and this is what I eventually came to accept:

1.) You can not save people from THEMSELVES
2.) There is an auto-assumption that the LENDER is the 'bad guy', and that isn't as often right or fair.
3.) 'Bad' (i.e. poor decision-makers, liars, fraud-partakers, etc) doesn't walk in the door with a calling card. It is SO OFTEN the least likely person you suspect. People are full of sob-stories, horrific 'circumstances', etc ... like your 16 year old when he brings the car home dented.

Perhaps I sound a bit cynical - but after you've fallen for things over and over, and learned ... it helps. People sitting in their very own living room are not likely to come 'clean' to a complete stranger, if they don't have to. Now, I know, this whole thing is about an L.O. pulling the sales-pitch on a "little old lady", and maybe he WAS lying - sure, that definitely happens.

For the most part - VERY general statement - anything that is NOT a part of the Note can probably be changed during rescission. The NOTE - well, all I can say is I'd never sign a note that I didn't want to be obligated to, as is. Please - this is a VERY general statement - no need to cite this lender or that lender's protocol. =)

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/21/06 5:14pm
Msg #161527

Geez Ms. Renee, I should have waited for you excellent reply n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/22/06 6:56am
Msg #161604

Creepy, missy - we both posted at EXACT same time =) n/m

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 11/21/06 7:02pm
Msg #161539

Re: soul-balm

I'm with Renee on this. And, I'll add that, in my experience, when I'm sitting at the table and just cringing at the "crappy deal" someone is getting, it's usually because that lender is the ONLY lender willing to take a chance on someone with a poor credit history or who is thisclose to foreclosure and needs to be bailed out immediately or lose their home.

I've also run into the situation where the LO seems to be telling the borrowers something completely different than what is in the docs. I love, love, love the forms that many lenders now include which say "If it's not in writing, you're not getting it". Those forms are wonderful. I make sure the borrowers read this document, usually "READ BEFORE SIGNING" is printed on the document anyway. I keep my mouth shut about whether what the LO says matches what's in the docs but, if a borrower asks, I'll point out the terminology in the doc and let the borrower read it for him/herself.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 11/21/06 9:49pm
Msg #161560

Re: soul-balm

>>>>>For the most part anything that is NOT a part of the Note can probably be changed during rescission <<<<<

Through the years, I have successfully signed more difficult loans at record speed with that simple statement. It's all about borrower leverage and lack of it when the borrower refuses to sign.

Reply by Ndwa on 11/22/06 12:40am
Msg #161589

Re: soul-balm

You're in business to sign loan PAPERS...to make lots of money. You're a third party impartial contractor, witness. Pull yourself a red flag when you start getting judgemental and bias.