Posted by KEVIN FINLEY on 11/10/06 7:54pm
Msg #158853

Notarizations - Do you do this????

The other day I received a call from an attorney and she said her client is filing
for a divorce and her husband is saying that he never refinanced the home.
He said that he never signed any loan papers whatsoever and any signature of his is
a forgery.Now this closing occurred in 2002 and I was the notary and I have his
signature and license number in my journal as proof.
I decided to call the secretary of state of Texas just to see what my responsibility
was and to my surprise the lady (a paralegal)said that I was supposed to have the
borrower sign my journal EACH and EVERY time I notarized a doc in the package.
For example(DOT,Name affadavit,Survey affadavit,Maritial status aff.)
Four different documents means four signatures in your journal for that loan.
DID ANYONE KNOW THAT!!!!!!!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/10/06 8:04pm
Msg #158855

Call the lady back and tell her that on March 9, 2005 (I think it was the 9th) it was discussed in the judicial committee that signatures were no longer required after sometime in the 1990's and the requirement was removed from the notary law. I was there. I heard it. It might even be on video in an archive, Kevin.

Read your notary handbook closely. You will see that it does NOT say that you must collect a signature. You just have to keep a log of all those things we collect when we notarize.

Where are you Kevin?

Reply by KEVIN FINLEY on 11/10/06 8:11pm
Msg #158857

Dallas,TX

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/10/06 8:13pm
Msg #158860

This example is a good reason to get thumbprints on every notarization, even if not required by law. Signatures can be forged, but thumbprints don't lie...

Reply by DebbieT on 11/10/06 8:27pm
Msg #158866

I just took a look at the journals and they are great. Ordered two of them.

Reply by Howie35CT on 11/10/06 8:27pm
Msg #158867

Signatures can't be forged if you just looked at the guy's ID, and matched the VALID ID and signature to the one that he signed in your logbook. Kinda hard to get any judge to release you from a lein when you can show this in a court of law.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/10/06 8:35pm
Msg #158873

Re: Notarizations - Do you do this???? Hi Howie...

My concern is that the SOS told the guy what he stated. I can prove that the lawmakers believe that this is not so. Heard it with my own ears and that was the first time I realized the signature requirement was taken out. I found the video in the archives if Kevin wants to relieve his fears that he's done the wrong thing. It's not in our rules to do so any longer. I am 99.9% sure the signature was taken out b/f the date he mentions.

In my previous law office experience, yes we signed every line, however, we also were allowed to draw a diagonal line to show signing all the documents in a row.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/10/06 8:12pm
Msg #158858

I found the video. Email me and I will send you a link to it, Kevin.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 11/10/06 8:13pm
Msg #158859

I specifically got the.......

NotaryRotary journal so I woludn't have to enter the signers information for each document in the package. The journal allows you to specify what documents you notarized and only have the signer sign once and one thumbprint. There are alot of California notaries out there using this journal.

Reply by KEVIN FINLEY on 11/10/06 8:37pm
Msg #158875

Brenda,
My email is [e-mail address]

Thanks
Kevin Finley

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/10/06 8:40pm
Msg #158878

Check your email. I hope you keep in touch with me on this b/c it's pretty interesting to me.

Reply by David Kral on 11/11/06 12:04am
Msg #158945

Call your E&O Carrier Immediately!

I am not an attorney, do not play one on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night BUT.......

Call your E&O Carrier Immediately.

Your E&O carry will likely help sort this out.

Did the husbank just call you out of the blue? Or did you receive a legal notice?

Let the E&O company lawyer's determine if this is a serious claim. Keep a log/copies of your activities on this matter. Advise them and recommended that if the original documents are located to handle them with care as there still may be fingerprints on them(if the wife's are on them and the true husband's never are it would seem odd, perhaps fraud).

If matters rise to a certain level and the husband is making false claims that might be crime in an of itself. Your E&O company's legal counsel may advise you how to proceed. Record phone calls if allowable, photocopies of phone logs from the husband, keep copies of emails from the husband etc.

It is hard for these people to lie. The money went somewhere. If there was cash,

Did it go into a joint account?
Did he make specific purchases with the funds, a car, a boat, a credit card bill, where those purchases were attributable to items specifically for his use.

Does the signature match?

If the proceeds were sent by check, was it payable to Jane and John Doe? Then who was John Doe that endorsed it??

Where was the check deposited or cash? If it was deposited in a bank with John Doe, why didn't the husband know about it?

So if somelse opened an account at a bank now they are defrauding a federally insured financial institution...big no, no.

People forget, but a subpeona of bank records lays out a lot of facts. The E&O company will want to contact the title company/bank immediately so they can find, preserve and research the cancelled check and trace the use of the funds on any disbursements.

Not a great scenario, but if you have the wife's signature and someone else was there at the same....well "Lucy...you gots some splaining to do." She would have known it was not her husband. Did she sign a one in the same borrower statement? Did she sign the mortgage that say"husband and wife" if it was not her husband at the table....she knew it. Did she sign the statement that indicates the statement's she is making are true and correct?

Fraud verses a mistake. Fraud... what would your motivation have been? What did you get out of it? Your fee? I do not think anyone is going to believe you were out for fraud on that.

A mistake? Well it might be possible, if it was not him. Two cases here:

1)Mislead-- you were duped with fraudlent documents(and if the wife was there, the situtation was misrepresented to you.)

2) Honeset mistake. In other words, you were asleep at the switch. You did not notice the guy sitting there did not look like the guy in the photo id and you mistakenly notaried his signature. Still this seems pretty remote (there is a closing with a particular name on the documents and as a coincidence someone else with the same name just happens to be at the right place and the right time and is willing to sign the documents? Unlikely.)

If it appears serious, I would not rely solely on the E&O carrier's attornies as your sole legal advisor. Many title companies are owned by attornies. If you work for some local ones, I would pick a title company you are close to and ask to speak with one of their lawyers. attornies. Tell them you may need a referal to a lawyer at another firm. Explain briefly the situtation and whether they believe you need your own legal counsel at this point. If it was a local title company that did the title work, do not approach that one for the referal but select a different one. If you cannot remember the title company, check the mortgage at the courthouse and see if it says who drafted it.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/11/06 1:28am
Msg #158959

Re: Call your E&O Carrier Immediately!

Well done, Mr. Kral.