Posted by texNcally on 11/18/06 2:03pm
Msg #161000

Question on signing

Hello All, I have a question about what order everyone signs documents.
The lady who helped teach me said she always pulls out all docs she is going to stamp and does them first and then goes through all the rest of the parperwork, of course this is if she gets the docs first.
I have done this a couple times but it took longer to put them back in page order than the signing took! My broker said don't put them back in order, but I would not feel good about that.
Does anyone have a technique they like to use to when dong a 1st and 2nd?
I have started highlighting all areas for BO to sign and fill in along with initial areas which seems to work well and actually speeds things up.
I also have to ask has anyone else had trouble with a mortage company trying to tell you to stamp pages that do not have proper 2006 wording on them because they do not want you to attach the jurat or Ack. to the back? I have had this happen twice now with different companies that operate in several states and I tried to explain that they can go to SOS web site and look up the new code that states for california we have to use the exact wording now and cannot change it like before. They of course scoffed and said we can get another notary, and have never used me again! Just curious if others have had this problem.
JW

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/18/06 2:12pm
Msg #161001

Hud on top and then just get 'em done.

The hud, the RTC, the note, the TIL, is a nice order if it looks like a cranky signer, but otherwise, I don't worry with it.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/18/06 2:13pm
Msg #161002

This has been asked & answered many times. Opinions vary &, as it's already been said many ways, suggest you use search feature for 'messages', not topics to find many answers--one of which I'm sure you'll like.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 2:48pm
Msg #161005

cool thanks

Reply by John_NorCal on 11/18/06 2:49pm
Msg #161006

I agree with Brenda. I don't worry about pulling everything out before hand. I just take my time and make sure that everything is stamped and notarized. Make sure that you finish one loan before going onto another. As for highlighting things, that is something I wouldn't recommend, you're apt to get a picky title company, etc who wants everything pristine. If you really want to highlight something, buy those little stickys that say "sign here."

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 3:14pm
Msg #161009

I actually started doing the highlighting after I recieved a package that had been highlighted by either the TC or the mortgage company, not sure just noticed all the highlighting. No complaints yet but I do agree about picky title companies!I had one that did not want me to correct their mistake of putting the county by crossing it out and putting correct county, they actually sent a new one and asked if I could please get the new one signed because they did not want it to be hand written. They payed me for going back but still, my signature is good enough but not my corrections, I am sure they were just covering their own butt.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:51pm
Msg #161031

Re: Question on signing john

I do seem to agree also about pulling them out, I do not like to get to rushed or make the Borr. feel rushed either, I was hoping I was not alone in this thought and I am glad to see I am not, I do not think I ever really saved that much time by doing so anyway.
Thanks

Reply by Blueink_CA on 11/18/06 3:10pm
Msg #161008

You can order a jurat stamp from this site. I use it all the time when the wording is wrong for CA. Much neater that attaching a loose jurat Also, with the Ack, since most companies that send me work are out of state TCs, I use the wording provided as long as it doesn't require naming capacity. The DOT usually has the correct CA wording since this is recorded in CA., if not, a loose ack is used.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 3:22pm
Msg #161010

I did see that we can use the stamp instead of attaching but I was worried about TC complaining have you had any complaints when using the stamps? Also even if it doesn't require naming capacity we still can not stamp w/o proper wording can we?
I do not worry about the wording unless I am stamping, if I am only signing as closing agent and no stamp.

Reply by Blueink_CA on 11/18/06 3:34pm
Msg #161011

I have never had a complaint about using the jurat stamp. Also, refer to Civil Code 1189(c) in regards to acknowledging an out of state doc. Some notaries prefer loose certs, and I agree they should always be used when in doubt.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:19pm
Msg #161015

That is what I was refering to because it is a little confusing to me since the property is in california and the signing takes place here, is not the signer holding a representaitive capacity in the state of california since they are purchasing california property or using california property as a means for acquiring a loan? I have called the SOS with questions regarding this and they have been unable to answer my questions and alwasy refere me to go to NNA and sign up for a class? Why they are suggesting this I do not know, but I think I need to find away around whomever is answering the phones at the SOS office.
I may be over thinking every thing but I do not want to be like some and sign and stamp anything that comes my way with a who cares attitude I have already seen too many bad SA who do not even understand the notary laws. I have had bad experience with companies trying to get me to backdate, not worry about proper ID, I have even been told to "just get them to sign everything and do not change the wording even if it is not correct". I have refused all trying to explain that fraud is a felony when dealing with real property and I like noone enough to go to jail for them!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/18/06 5:12pm
Msg #161036

What I've been told is simply this - notarize according to the laws of your state, and you're golden.

If your state says the wording has to be exactly so - especially on a recordable document - then that's what you do. If the TC's wording doesn't conform, strike it and either write, stamp, or attach a loose certificate with the correct wording. Here in NY, the wording must "substantially conform" to NY wording, which gives us a little wiggle room - that may not be the case in all states.

The state that commissioned you has the final say over how you perform a proper notarization, not the TC. If the TC complains, explain to them that you are doing what the law requires, and refer them to the SOS if necessary. And if they don't call you again to offer more work because of this, you're probably better off - it's just a disaster waiting to happen, and your commission is at stake.

As for highlighting - I've had docs that were already highlighted, and others where the instructions clearly said DO NOT HIGHLIGHT. It's not a decision I would be comfortable making on my own; if there's no clear guidance, I would check with the TC or SS before marking up the docs. If I have the chance to review the docs beforehand, I just put a "Sign Here" sticky wherever the signature or initial requirement is not obvious.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/18/06 8:05pm
Msg #161048

Why be worried?

"I did see that we can use the stamp instead of attaching but I was worried about TC complaining"

It's not like we have any choice in what wording we can use. If they get annoyed, they get annoyed, just tell them that CA law requires that wording, period. Anything beyond that is their problem, not yours. Just tell them that their desires don't overrule CA law.

If they never want to use you again because you won't do illegal notarizations, what have you really lost?

Reply by texNcally on 11/19/06 11:07pm
Msg #161184

Re: Why be worried?

thanks for that I agree, the loss of money does suck but last time I checked I did not have my integrity up for sale, only my services so I am fine w/out their money.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/18/06 3:55pm
Msg #161013

Do not ever use highlighter. Period. n/m

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:20pm
Msg #161016

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

why

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/18/06 4:25pm
Msg #161018

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

Tex,

Feel free to use it however you'd like. Ernest doesn't care if *you* use it or not...he's just making this point for people who want to do the job correctly and without reason for rejection.

Carry on as before, but you are risking getting it kicked back and a re-sign.

A finicky county clerk has the right to reject a deed of trust/mortgage if they deem it unrecordable.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/18/06 4:27pm
Msg #161020

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

~smiles~ I DO appreciate the way you phrase things little one

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:29pm
Msg #161021

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

computer kicked me off before finishing message and only the why went through. LOL
It was like the little one got on the key board though.~smiling~

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/18/06 4:30pm
Msg #161022

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period. Hi Sue!

Well...thank you ma'am.

My point is do the job so that you never have to go back for any reason you bring on yourself. Seems to make sense to me that if you KNOW it MIGHT someday POSSIBLY create a problem...why do it?

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/18/06 4:35pm
Msg #161024

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period. Hi Bren!!!

I've got one company that actually does refi's on mobile homes....they send the docs to me highlighted! Yep, you read it here girl! At first I was amused but now it's just one of those things. Money spends the same BUT I wouldn't highlight myself. I have one company that has a doc that needs initialed and it's "kinda hidden" in the doc itself. When I have extra time I slap a sign here label on that one because it's not one that I see often and I'll be darned if I'm gonna get myself in a hurry and miss it. Personally I'm partial to the tiny blue x's myself.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:37pm
Msg #161025

Re: Do not ever.. brenda

I do agree, which is why I asked what the story behind the Do not use was. I have never thought there would be a reason for it being returned if I used a Highlighter since I recieve some of the DOC package's and they were already highlighted. They are of course only putting it over the typed areas not were any signature or handwritten words would go.
In case anyone thought I was highliting the entire line.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/18/06 5:11pm
Msg #161035

Re: Do not ever.. brenda

Tex, Take it for what it is worth. It's just not a good practice, IMHO.

Lenders often want perfection so they can package and sell the loan. Why? For one reason, county recorders have their druthers. Sometime call one and ask if you can highlight on a recordable DOT. They'll say no, I'll bet.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 11/18/06 7:33pm
Msg #161046

One lender in particular

will make you resign if you highlight or even mark with a small "X". It could be considered an "inducement" is what one of the branch managers told me. If there is anything on the paper showing where to sign, the home office will deduct "points" and points effect bonuses. It is one of the lenders who deal with some of the biggest credit risks and I imagine that they've had to defend themselves in court from some borrower who wanted to get out of their loan and testified that they were "induced" into signing.

Reply by PAW on 11/18/06 8:42pm
Msg #161050

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

When a high resolution scan is done of a document that has certain highlighting, the highlight becomes very dark and hides the text (or worse yet, the signature) that it is suppose to highlight.

As a rule of thumb, do not use highlighters or white-out on any document. Lenders and title companies may not appreciate it. County recorders are known for not accepting documents with highlighting, even when the title company does it!

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:25pm
Msg #161019

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

why, please give me the horror story or your reason, I am curious. I have not had a complaint yet buut it does not mean I could or would have a bad experience if I do. The people signing seem to like it but this means nothing if I have to go back!
Thanks

Reply by VickiWA on 11/18/06 4:34pm
Msg #161023

Re: Do not ever use highlighter. Period.

In my training and experience, I was told to never use highlighter or whiteout. I have also received notary instructions with loan pkgs in large bold print stating to never use highlighter or whiteout. No one ever explained why I just do as I am told so I don't have to go back at my own expense.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/18/06 4:40pm
Msg #161026

I agree Vicki

With the one exception I listed above I don't think I've ever seen a set of instructions that didn't specify "do not highlight, do not use white out"

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 4:45pm
Msg #161028

Re: Do not ever use whiteout

This is told to us in the notary exam and class and the reason why is to make sure it has not been tampered with by someone else, but as sue said some I have recieved have typed words highlighted or ther is a small x in color by were they should sign.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/18/06 4:47pm
Msg #161030

Tex, just to clarify my statement

yes this particular company highlights the few docs there are involved HOWEVER there is also a set of instructions stating that upfront i.e. have the borrower sign in the yellow highlighted area.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 5:00pm
Msg #161033

Re: Tex, just to clarify my statement

I understand, it is only one company that I deal with that highlights also, yet they do not have the instructions about highlighted areas.
I am glad to see it is not just i that has gotten the highlited package! I also scratched my head the first time.
Thanks for the input everyone on the highlighter, but the more important matter was regarding civil code 1189 (c) that blueink and I was refering to dealing with out of state doc wording when dealing with california property and being told not to change it regardless of what california law says since they are an out of state company.

Reply by VickiWA on 11/18/06 4:52pm
Msg #161032

I have recieved docs highlighted

by whoever has the authority to do so but I am told we do not have the authority to highlight docs. If you haven't had any problems highlighting then that's your business but I don't want to take the chance. That's just me and the way I am, do as I am told. Just thought I could help here

Have a good Thanksgiving.

Reply by texNcally on 11/18/06 5:05pm
Msg #161034

Re: docs highlighted.. vicki

I agree and do thank you so much for your input, everyone's, since I have only been doing this since july. I have not received the do not highlight, but I do agree that let them do it not me. I can not be used as a scapegoat for something like yellow ink if I did not use any. You have helped thank you again,
jw

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/18/06 8:07pm
Msg #161049

"I have started highlighting all areas for BO to sign and fill in along with initial areas which seems to work well and actually speeds things up"

I think the highlighting thing has already been covered pretty well, but how much time do you think you're really saving? Spending 20 or 30 minutes organizing the docs in advance to save 10 minutes at the signing isn't what I would call efficient.