Posted by apeyfaceFL on 10/14/06 12:56pm
Msg #152521

Borrower "Seal" on paperwork / Witness with no line

Does anyone know why some paperwork that asks for Borrower signature(s) contains the word (Seal) next to their signature line? These are specifically in places where my notary is not required, so it's not asking for my seal.

Also, do you ever see forms asking for a Witness where there is no witness line? Some forms contain the wording "Witness the Hand(s) and Seal(s) of the Undersigned", which implies someone should witness but there is no allotted area for it.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/14/06 1:01pm
Msg #152522

That goes back to the old days when people signing documents had their own seals. Ignore it.

Witness the hands and seal of the undersigned is not asking for witnesses.

Reply by apeyfaceFL on 10/14/06 1:11pm
Msg #152523

I had a feeling it was from the old days. It sounded so formal. Thanks. While I have you, I've had two days of rough closings, wrong dates, etc. I came across one more strange situation and am wondering if else anyone has. The SA sent me paperwork separate from the re-fi docs on their letterhead calling it an" Amendment to Escrow Instructions, Notary/Borrower Accommodation". This form was for the Borrower's to sign saying my services had been arranged for their convenience and if anything happens, the Borrowers are responsible for my fees. I felt really odd asking them to sign this. Clearly, I want to get paid, but what if there is some error on rates, etc. and they back out, why should they have to pay me, the company who messed up should.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 10/14/06 1:37pm
Msg #152524

This sounds better to me......

than when I'm told by the ss that I will not be paid if the loan doesn't fund, borrower exercises the NORTC or whatever. I've had a few ss let me know up-front that they will not pay me in these instances, they would state that they couldn't stay in business if they paid me when they themselves didn't get paid.

good morning, Larry

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/14/06 2:46pm
Msg #152546

I have had forms in the package for the borrower to sign saying they will be responsible for my fee if the loan doesn't go through for any reason. Most have refused to sign it. The RTC says they have the legal right under federal law to cancel the transaction without cost.
It is up to the borrower whether they sign it or not.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 10/14/06 2:09pm
Msg #152529

Private seal

Some states still provide for private individuals to use seals, although no one on the board seems to be sure of any disadvantage if a document were merely signed rather than sealed. To make this requirement convenient, the private seal has been made so easy that it has become silly: the word "seal" IS the borrower's seal. If you look at http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullsection.cfm?Title=01&Chapter=003&Section=00134 you will find this definition of a private seal in Vermont:

"When the private seal of a person or corporation is required on an instrument or writing to make such instrument or writing legal and valid such seal shall consist of an impression as provided in section 133 of this title or of a wafer, wax or other adhesive substance affixed thereto or of a paper or other similar substance affixed thereto or the word "seal" or the letters "L.S." opposite the signature."

Reply by PAW on 10/14/06 4:10pm
Msg #152554

And these questions are from a "Certified" signing agent and an "experience" notary (over 10 years)! What on earth is the NNA teaching? (Rhetorical question. Please don't answer that!) Also, this is a good case for why Florida needs a notary exam and notaries renewing their commission should be subject to re-examination. (The preceding is merely my opinion and not to be construed in any other manner.)

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/14/06 4:20pm
Msg #152557

My thoughts exactly, Paul. 10 years? UGH! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/14/06 4:35pm
Msg #152559

Re: My thoughts exactly, Paul...for Pete's sake!

Ten years? Oh boy.

Reply by apeyfaceFL on 10/14/06 9:37pm
Msg #152596

Re: My thoughts exactly, Paul...for Pete's sake!

Wow, slap. Folks, I don't see how asking about the history of seals and some obscure language relate to my judgment as a notary these past 10 years. I simply haven’t seen this wording before, or as frequently as I am in these docs. As for what the NNA promotes in order to be "Certified", admittedly not as much as one would hope--but this is not surprising with the broad variety of situations we have to deal with. Hey, I’m not the one selling the big bucks to anyone who becomes a notary. In my opinion, only those who are serious about understanding what we’re doing (and not afraid to ask the more experienced signing agents) are going to succeed. I’m sorry to say that some of we “newbies” are here to stay because we enjoy the challenges of the job, the people and the flexibility. Sylvia FL, Larry/CA, Gerry VT, thanks for the insightful information.

Reply by PAW on 10/14/06 10:05pm
Msg #152600

Re: My thoughts exactly, Paul...for Pete's sake!

All that I can surmise is that in 10 years you must not do much in the line of notarizations or you just haven't paid attention to the documents. Almost every affidavit and power of attorney that I have seen, have the wording "witness my hand and seal". Also, the Florida Governor's Reference Manual eludes to the word "seal" on the signature line. It actually uses a older and not-so-common Latin abbreviation, L.S. instead of the word "seal", but it means the same thing. This information can be found on page 67 (last paragraph), if you're interested.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/14/06 10:18pm
Msg #152606

Re: My thoughts exactly, Paul...for Pete's sake!

** but this is not surprising with the broad variety of situations we have to deal with. **

Apey, the main thing is to read your handbook regularly. If you learn it well you will come to learn that as a notary everything is the same that you need to do as a >notary<.

Usually, people who have quite a bit of notary experience don't find a lot of variety in their work.

Reply by apeyfaceFL on 10/15/06 11:45am
Msg #152647

Re: My thoughts exactly, Paul...for Pete's sake!

I pulled out my copy of the Governor's Reference Manual just last night and will get some night time reading in. The variety I'm speaking of is in the closings. Based on last week's issues with paperwork I received, you can't let your guard down.