Posted by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/1/06 7:26pm
Msg #149686

Day of Atonement

The most astonishing thing happened to me today at church.

Unitarians are sometimes jocularly referred to as "Jewnitarians." There are a couple of reasons for that. We are truly ecumenical, seeking truth in all the world's great religions. Also, because we are what would normally be identified as a liberal faith (I've been a Unitarian for 45 years, joining shortly after I became an agnostic), we draw many Reformed Jews into our ambit.

Today a visiting minister conducted a Yom Kippur Day of Atonement service. Those of you who are Jewish, or are better informed than I on the tenets of Judaism, know that during such observances participants turn to each other and ask for atonement for any wrongs committed on the other person.

A formerly close friend, with whom I had exchanged some rather bitter words over a personal matter in the past couple of months, walked all the way across the sanctuary to ask for my forgiveness. I was quite thrown off my guard, not the least because only the night before, at another church gathering, she had once again in private expressed how deep her resentment was.

I was still coming to grips with that encounter when the service ended, and another member walked back toward me. She had really been abusive in an e-mail exchange a while back over, of all things, a church fund-raiser. Darned if she didn't do the same thing.

So now I'm left with a couple of questions. Would I have been a big enough person to do what either one of those women did? The answer is obviously "no," because I patently did not do it when I had the opportunity. But even if I did not have the character to seek forgiveness as they did at that time, am I now big enough to look within myself to find the rectitude to follow their gracious examples? It's a struggle, and I'm beginning to fear I may not qualify.

Things were a lot simpler in my life before that service this morning.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 10/1/06 7:57pm
Msg #149689

Religion aside...just basic Karma (no it is not what you take your Dogma to the vet in)...By harbouring unforgiveness, anger and bitterness..the only person you are hurting is YOU. These two women have asked your forgiveness, and to continue to dwell on the hurt and anger, will cause YOU problems, not THEM.

If you want to get "religious", then both the Tenakh (Jewish Scriptures...aka Old Testament)...and the "New Testament" say that you must forgive. In the new testament, Jesus tells Peter to forgive seventy times seven and that as you forgive, so your Father in Heaven forgives you. In other words, if you want heavenly forgiveness (or just peace in your life), you must forgive (even if they Don't ask you to). The Tenakh speaks in many places about forgiving those who wrong you.

You identify yourself as an "Agnostic"...(in other words...if I'm not mistaken, one who says there MIGHT be a G-d, but you can't prove it) as opposed to an Atheist who says (There is no G-d).

Maybe this is G-d speaking to you in a still small voice saying (go to them and ask their forgiveness) You don't have to do it in person...you can do it in an email, fax, card, letter etc. If you feel "embarrassed" in doing it vis-a-vie. There is no bigger man (or woman) than a man/woman who is on their knees b4 G-d. Be that bigger man Hugh...listen to Him.

For the rest of you...I'm off to Yom Kippur services myself and will not be on here until sundown Monday. "May your fast be easy." L' Shanah Tovah

"Doc" Shmuel Muni Ben Henon

Reply by kathy/ca on 10/2/06 10:14am
Msg #149743

Signing Doc, you never fail to make me laugh, Karma/Dogma!!

You have the greatest sense of humor & thank's for adding such a fun "touch" to this board! I enjoyed your's and Hugh's post's, off topic or not, very interesting and IMO, one that we can all take a good lesson from!

Reply by TitleGalCA on 10/1/06 8:52pm
Msg #149692

OT: Suggesting the Obvious.

An "OT" before this post would be appropriate as it is....off topic "OT".

Reply by John_NorCal on 10/1/06 10:55pm
Msg #149705

OT Re: Day of Atonement

It's easy to forgive when you put yourself in the other person's shoes.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 10/2/06 7:36am
Msg #149722

Unless I've Misread the Content of This Message...

...your posting is almost completely "religious" in nature. In case you've not been made aware, the "mob rule" gang on the NotRot board pushed through some new language in the "Rules & Guidelines" in the not too distant past which now forbids this topic to be discussed on the NotRot board. For your edification here is that new guideline: "Please keep off-topic posts to a minimum and avoid topics that others may consider offensive, such as politics and religion." I guess we'll all need to be a little forgiving since this is your first "offense" & for that matter we'll need to pass out a one time "warning" to Bob_Chicago for his faux paus in addressing a political subject in the past few days.

We don't want to offend anyone, do we Hugh?

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/2/06 10:06am
Msg #149741

Re: Unless I've Misread the Content of This Message...

Dennis who appointed you the board police? Get some fiber, man. The post was one about forgiving and being forgiven, and setting the background for the story, so he says he's Jewish. Whoopedeedoooo and leave my buddy Bob - Chicago alone. We run individual businesses and if he's an NNA man, so what? You're a crabby patty. Sign up for my charm class.

Go BEARS!!!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 10/2/06 10:44am
Msg #149749

My Posting was a "Tongue in Cheek"...

...comment directed at those who have truly deemed themselves to be the "board police" (of which you are a charter member by the way) via their mob mentality. Thanks for demonstrating my point in a way I most certainly could not.

Reply by Winston_Tn on 10/2/06 11:02am
Msg #149752

NO...Thank YOU !

For again illustrating with a clarity that only you posess, of exactly how a crusty irascible cantankerous cacogencan be so easily bruised. We feel your pain.

Shouldn't you be sorting your sock drawer or something more utile than offering senile attempts to offend?

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/2/06 11:06am
Msg #149755

Re: My Posting was a "Tongue in Cheek"...

OK, you and I must be from different planets...I don't see how I've demonstrated your point at all. All I did was point out the obvious. I've never considered myself board police at all, I went out of my way to 'inform' posters here that flaskmac was off her rocker with all the unethical/illegal; advice she so freely spit out. As a consequence, she was ejected for several complaints and TC's calling H to complain about her. Pointing out the obvious is a lot different than being a crotchety ol crab Mr. Broadbooks. I don't jump on petty finger pointing issues just to post.

Reply by Gary_CA on 10/2/06 8:58am
Msg #149729

Thanks

Okay so I guess it's against the rules and you get a Technical Foul... but I enjoyed the read.

I also enjoy the prayer requests now and then and Doc's insights into his religion.

Offensive religious posts (and conversations) are the ones that start with "mine's better than yours" and end with "you'd better change"

Haven't seen any of that here.

My two cents, for free here on NotRot

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/2/06 3:50pm
Msg #149823

Note to Charm Re Humor: You must recognize that......

those on the extreme of the spectrum, have an entirely
different sense of humor than the rest of the world.
That which is funny or fun to us, they find worthy of being
banned by law, hopefully by amending the Constitution.
That which they consider ROFLMAO funny, causes regular
folks to say, "Huh? Oh, that was a joke? Whatever"

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 10/2/06 4:21pm
Msg #149828

Here's Some "Humor" I Know You'll Appreciate, Bob...

...as this was taken from Snopes.com & has a Chicago connection to it. While not condoning Rep Foley's tawdry missives, at least he had the wherewithal to keep his hands & other body parts to himself:

Claim: An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate.

Status: True.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001]

Jessie Jackson has added former Chicago democratic congressman Mel Reynolds to the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll. Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree. Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud & lies to the Federal Election Commission. He is more notorious; however, for concurrently serving five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer.

This is a first in American politics: An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate.

His new job? Youth counselor.

Origins: We can't say with absolute certainty that what's described above is "a first in American politics," since the sexual peccadilloes of American politicians were not always as widely publicized as they are now, but the gist of the piece is true (although it originally circulated back in 2001, so it now references events that occurred several years ago and not ones that happened just recently):

1995-1997: President Bill Clinton's sexual escapades with Monica Lewinsky, then a 21-year-old unpaid White House intern working in the office of Leon Panetta, Clinton's Chief of Staff, hardly need recounting to anyone who hasn't spent the last eight years on Mars.

January 2001: The National Enquirer revealed that Jesse Jackson had been carrying on a four-year affair with Karin L. Stanford, a 39-year-old former aide with his Rainbow/PUSH Coalition staff, and that Jackson had fathered the child Stanford bore in May 1999. (Jackson has been married since 1963.)

January 2001: Just before leaving office, President Clinton (at the urging of Jesse Jackson, among others) commuted the sentence of former Illinois congressman Mel Reynolds, who had spent 30 months in a state prison for having sex with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer and was serving a five-year sentence in federal prison for lying to obtain loans and illegally diverting campaign money for personal use.

January 2001: The Chicago Sun-Times reported that former congressman Mel Reynolds would be working as the community development director of Salem Baptist Church in south-side Chicago, and as a consultant for Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, trying to decrease the number of young African-Americans going to prison. (Reynolds' position would be more accurately characterized as that of an advisor on prison reform rather than a "Youth counselor," however.)

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/2/06 9:04pm
Msg #149896

Huh? Oh, that was a joke?. Whatever N/M n/m