Posted by Poppy on 10/23/06 10:55am
Msg #154434

Fees in Journal.

Do you include your entire fee in your journal and then break it down by notary services and signing services?

Or do you only enter your notary service fees?

(I know the law, at least in CA. only requires us to enter the fees for the notary services, but I'm wondering what most notaries enter....

I only enter fees for my notary services, but have been called on it a couple of times when borrowers notice my fee in the journal...

Reply by Larry/Ca on 10/23/06 11:36am
Msg #154447

I put the whole fee.....

in the journal and at the end of the year I count up the docs notarized and subtract $10 for each one from my gross income. I know that somewhere on the schedule C tax form there is a line to subtract these fees from the gross but I'm not sure which line. They are not expenses and I've never been to a tax guy so if anyone out there knows which line on the schedule C these notary fees are entered please clue me in.

thanks, Larry

Reply by Poppy on 10/23/06 11:54am
Msg #154457

Larry,

The fees for the notary services are not subject to the self employment tax (only)

Fees received for services performed as a notary public. If you had no other income subject to SE tax, enter “Exempt—Notary” on Form 1040, line 58. However, if you had other earnings of $400 or more subject to SE tax, enter “Exempt—Notary” and the amount of your net profit as a notary public from Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ on the dotted line to the left of Schedule SE, line 3. Subtract that amount from the total of lines 1 and 2 and enter the result on line 3.

Hope that helps....

Reply by Larry/Ca on 10/23/06 12:10pm
Msg #154472

Thanks Poppy, this year i......

may have to pay self employment taxes, not sure yet. Last year notary fees and expenses gobbled up up the entire gross income from this gig. Later today I will drag out last years forms and instructions and look at those lines.

Thanks again, Larry

Reply by Poppy on 10/23/06 12:25pm
Msg #154483

You're welcome Larry.. Good Luck... n/m

Reply by Howie35CT on 10/23/06 11:44am
Msg #154452

I only enter fees for my notary services, but have been called on it a couple of times when borrowers notice my fee in the journal...

What exactly are borrowers "calling you" on? Your fees paid by a third party have nothing to do with them. I only show them where they are to sign in my journal, quickly obtain the signature(s) and put my journal back in my bag. I keep notary service names, fees, and dates in my journal to provide a backup for my logkeeping in the unlikely event that my new Dell (with all my spreadsheets) fails. Your journal is your business, just make sure you are keeping it up with standards set by your particular state. Happy hunting, and keep those nosy BO's from getting an extended peek at your fees! :oB

Reply by Poppy on 10/23/06 11:52am
Msg #154456

Howie,

Yes, you're right. They are nosy... Maybe I should enter the fees after they've signed. I've only been called on it a few times and their statements were along the lines of are you trying to cheat on your income, I know you're charging more than that.

Reply by Regal/NC on 10/23/06 12:05pm
Msg #154466

Why do U let them see them???

I never enter my notarial fees until after the page is full. That way anyone signing my journal is unable to see any fees. I also utilize a section of a hanging folder to block prior borrower's info from the next person signing.

JMHO!!

Reply by Poppy on 10/23/06 12:13pm
Msg #154475

Regal... I think I will start entering my fees after they

sign. I do block previous journal entries but I have always filled out the fees at the time of signing along with all other information. The only time I really go back to the journal after is to mark paid after I receive a check...
I'll have to re-think my method on fees a little. Thanks for the help.... "smiles" Poppy

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/23/06 12:26pm
Msg #154484

Re: Why do U let them see them???

I agree it's a good idea to hide other borrower's info from view in the journal. I couldn't figure out what to use so I just started putting post-it notes over the name & address block, and also over the identification information block. When you move on to the next page, just re-use the ones from the previous page.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/23/06 5:02pm
Msg #154565

Re: Why do U let them see them???

I have heard great things about NR's jopurnal, but I chose the P & S journal because of it's design, which does NOT permit the current signer to be able to see anything about the previous signer's information.
I'd love to see Harry add that design to his journal......hint hint.

Reply by Kate/CA on 10/23/06 12:08pm
Msg #154469

Hi Poppy

If I get a $100 for a signing and I only do 5 notarization, I show $10 for each entry, and yes I use the MoJo journal, but I chose to make and entry for each document entered as I feel that best follows CA notary law, IMHO. Now lets say I only get $50 for a signing (heaven forbid) and I have 10 notarizations. I show 5.00 for each entry. This way if the amount in my book is totaled it is going to equal the deductions I can claim. I have other records that show all the fee I am collecting and the Journal is a notary journal, not a signing agent journal.

Reply by Poppy on 10/23/06 12:19pm
Msg #154477

Thanks Kate.... Can you elaborate a little on your comment

regarding making a journal entry for each document entered? I'm curious why you think it's a better fit for following CA notary law... (I'd like your input or anyone else's on the topic) I like to get a roundtable on these kinds of things and then form my own opinion. That's what is so great about Notary Rotary....

Reply by Kate/CA on 10/23/06 4:38pm
Msg #154556

Re: Thanks Kate.... Can you elaborate a little on your comment

IMHO I feel that entering each entry instead of using one entry for a whole set of loan docs, allows me to abide by the Calif State Notary Handbook. Page 9 under Notary Journal, item 1 that say" Date, Time, and type of each offical (e.g. acknowledgement, jurat)." The way I see that is that I must have an individual time for each entry. The journal doesn't allow for that. This is the way I have always done it. It is much easier to use than the other journal in that I just circle the J or A and the doc type or write it in the journal.
I have been doing this long enough that I can generally do a signing in 45 min to and hour, completely fill out the certificates, fill in the journal and check the docs 3 times. Hope this helps.

Reply by faceynotary on 10/23/06 4:19pm
Msg #154549

Good Afternoon Mr. Poppy and Fellow NSA's:

I know that many of our esteemed NSA's answered you from their experiences. May I ask, do you keep a log whether on a spreadsheet, ms money, quicken or some other program? I think that is what is going to help you to determine your fees.

The NNA has a Notary Signing Agent Log: http://www.nationalnotary.org/supplies/index.cfm?product=06719

It helps you break down the aspects of each siging, i.e., mileage, # of docs, # of signings, value of fee, etc. It helps to have hard copies, yes our trusty computers store alot of info, but as someone mentioned anything can happen. You can later transfer this info into one of those computer programs to keep double track.

I am sure our fellow NSA's can also tell you other resources to purchase one of these, if you don't already have one ofcourse. The NNA is just where I have purchased mines.

The Notary Journal, is something that we all use (well most of us, whether mandated in our state or not), to keep track of every notarization itself whether the notarization was for a signing or not. As long as you place your trusty stamp on a certificate, that notarization belongs in the books- the fees are important but not as important as the entry itself. I also agree that the fees are your business.

I also agree with hiding jouirnal entries: when I do my signings, I get 2 pieces of paper and cover up my previous entries, and I've had borrowers tell me how much they appreciate that gesture as they are assured that their entries are protected to.

Please excuse me if I am being redundant. We have many wise NSA's here and they advise well. I just started posting on the boards, and I have been reading the posts. am glad I signed up with this site.

Enjoy the rest of your evening. Going to lay back down now- home sick today.

That Savvy Brooklyn NYC Dame.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/23/06 4:25pm
Msg #154550

ummm Ms. Savvy...

apparently you've not seen the MoJo that this site sells. It is by far, the best and your post may be deleted for advtsng a direct competitor. Just thought I'd let you know.

Reply by faceynotary on 10/23/06 4:31pm
Msg #154553

Re: ummm Ms. Savvy...

Thanks Ms. Charm:

It's okay if it's deleted... just being honest. You are right this site is a direct competitor.

Not feeling well today, so I did not go through all of Notary Rotary's supplies. Just trying to be helpful.

Oh well.

Ms. Savvy

Reply by faceynotary on 10/23/06 4:49pm
Msg #154560

Re: ummm Ms. Savvy... By the way Ms. Charm

I might just check it out when I feel better.

I ordered something from a competitor today (yes your guess is right LOL) and there was a slight discrepancy with my state's tax. I was on the phone with a very imcompetent sales newbie who could not answer the simplest of questions so I spoke to the manager, who had a half decent explanation.- whatever.

"Don't be messing with my money" - LOL. NYkers don't like that. We have to hustle to make it here. LMAO- no that's not so funny... :-( This state sucks when it comes to living here and making it. But it's still the Big Apple, sigh.

Anyway, I will check it out. I was looking the modern journal of notarial acts- looks great. When my notary journal runs out of spaces...

Ms. Savvy Brooklyn NYC Dame

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/23/06 4:59pm
Msg #154564

Re: ummm Ms. Savvy... By the way Ms. Charm

get better soon...I just got over a cold myself, one day it's a/c, the next, it's heat...my sinuses can't take much more of this. I know the waiting list for apts there in NYC is long! The MoJo is fantabulous, you'll like it.

Reply by faceynotary on 10/23/06 5:30pm
Msg #154579

Re: ummm Ms. Savvy... By the way Ms. Charm

Hey Ms. Charm:

Thank you. I actually don't have a cold- but I did get sick from eating something this weekend.

It's getting cold here in NYC... I thought I was coming down with something, but I was wrong... just some minor food poisoning. Sigh

Yes the apartment lists are crazy and so is the rent.

Miss Savvy

Reply by Barbara O on 10/23/06 7:04pm
Msg #154617

Hmm I have never had this problem since I have two seperate journals. I have my "Notary Signing Agent Log" Which the borrowers info, company info and fee, etc go into and then I have my "Journal of Notarial Acts" Which is where I register each notarization and the borrower signs. So the borrower never sees the book in which my fee goes into.

Reply by faceynotary on 10/24/06 10:46am
Msg #154701

Hey Ms. Barbara:

Me too... that's what I was trying to convey in my post- one journal for entries and the log/ledger for signings- and for tax purposes...

I suppose we have some nosey signers- but then again, I cover up my other journal entries, and never enter a fee in their presence.

Jacqueline