Posted by davidK/CA on 10/18/06 1:33pm
Msg #153333
Here's my new fee idea
I believe that the fees shown below are reasonable and should be "standarized" by the all-powerful NNA. They apply to any contract between the notary and the requestor of NSA services including title companies, lendors or signing service:
NSA fees shall be the higher of: (1) 50% of the notary fee shown on the HUD-1 or (2) $125.00 for a single loan or $175.00 for a piggyback loan. More than two borrowers will increase the fee by 25 percent for each additional borrower.
No-sign fees shall be 50% of the above computed fees plus e-doc fees as applicable.
Travel fees in excess of 20 miles one-way shall be at an additional $0.75 per mile round trip. All toll road and toll bridge fees shall be charged at actual cost. Travel fees shall be paid in addition to no-sign fees, computed on a door-to-door basis.
E-doc printing fees shall be $35.00 per loan, not to exceed 200 total pages including the borrowers' copies. Additional pages shall be at $0.10 per page. If e-docs are sent as image files causing additional printing times then the fees shall be doubled.
Fax-backs are included up to 10 total document pages, additional pages shall be at $0.20 per faxed page.
A $5.00 fee shall be charged for the preparation of a notary-generated shipping label and/or delivery to "staffed" shipping center (as opposed to the use of a "drop box" .
An invoice creation and faxing fee of $5.00 for those companies who can't create their own internal accounts payable record when they contract with the notary for services.
A $5.00 fee for each and every phone call required at time of e-doc receipt, e-doc printing, departure to signing location, arrival at signing location, creation of tracking number, delivery to shipping service, etc. The only free call is that the documents have been signed. Tracking numbers will be e-mailed when available.
Did I miss anything? I think the above plan represents a fair payment for what we do. The "all-inclusive" fee that we get quoted has so many built in surprises that we wind up doing stuff for free that we should logically be compensated for. If we quoted (and were paid) on the basis of the various components of our service instead of being paid just a single fee we would gain respect for our efforts as well as additional compensation.
I think it's high time we take back control over the revenue side of our profession.
| Reply by Cheri Armentrout on 10/18/06 1:43pm
Msg #153334
good idea! However, you are in direct competition with notaries that will bend over. It will never fly and would be considered price-fixing.
My deal is $75. - 100. overnight, dependant on location $125. - 150. e-doc, etc...no fax backs unless you are new to me and I have to prove something. I'm doing pretty good with that and have a clear conscience.
p.s.
there are notaries here taking the job for less and doing twice the work.
| Reply by PJM/MI on 10/18/06 1:50pm
Msg #153336
Will you please forward that to the all-poweful, all-knowing NNA?  AND the cheapo companies? Oh.. please add "if payment is not received within 30 days, a 1/2% shall be added to any outstanding invoice." JMHO
| Reply by davidK/CA on 10/18/06 2:07pm
Msg #153340
Surely any outstanding invoice should be subject to the state's legal interest charges. I wasn't trying to be state specific, just my opinion of a new concept which is to charge separately for each component of the job rather than a single all-inclusive fee that allows for surprises and additional time and costs without hope of being compensated for the surprises.
How many time have you been surprised by the size of an e-doc package. You are told one thing ("Oh, it's just 60 pages" and it turns out to be 100 pages. There goes your profit on printing the e-docs. Or after you accept the assignment you get a confirmation that tells you that you have to faxback 25 or 30 pages, not maybe 10. Who pays for that? You do. And no-signs because the lendor made a "mistake" and the borrower found it when you are sitting at the table. You did your job, printed the documents, drove to the borrowers home and now you get nothing even though it's not your fault?
I think the solution is to charge for each and every part of the service. I maybe crazy, and probably most of you won't even consider doing so, but I'd rather stay home with the wife and dog than go out in the rain and darkness and wind up actually losing money because the pricing system established by the title companys, the lendors and the signing services forces me to accept an all-inclusive fee while the various conditions and terms they create can be changed at their wim without an opportunity for me to renegotiate.
The NSA's business model must be changed to reflect fairness to everyone including the NSA.
| Reply by sue_pa on 10/18/06 2:23pm
Msg #153343
David, Food for thought - if you price your 'all-inclusive' fee properly, and have high quality equipment, none of those things you mention will bother you. Size of package and fax back issues don't matter any longer. You should charge piece by piece for the order but not to the client. Figure out your standard costs and in the end they work out. A 50 page loan vs. a 150 page loan averages out in the end. In your example, if 80 pages ruins your profit margin it was too small to begin with. With your proposal, not counting the business you'd lose because no one would hire you, some of us would have year-end decreases in income because we already price ourselves properly.
A question. How long have you been doing this fulltime?
| Reply by sue_pa on 10/18/06 2:25pm
Msg #153345
p.s.
Why would you think any organization such as the NNA should 'standardize' anyone's fees? Certainly no one will 'standardize' mine as I charge A LOT more than I see most people on this board accept.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 10/18/06 2:26pm
Msg #153347
Points well made and taken, davidk. As an IC, you are free to do what fits your unique situation best. Yes, I said 'unique' because there is no such thing as 'one size fits all', nor should there be. There are probably nearly as many variables as there are Notaries doing this job. And we each must factor in those variables that affect us in order to remain profitable and in business.
| Reply by davidK/CA on 10/18/06 2:43pm
Msg #153354
I have been a NSA for over three years and my wife even longer. I am in a very impacted area, Northern California where we have lawyers and NSA's on every street corner, some waving those big arrows around! (Just kidding, sort of.)
What I'm saying is that if the great big Mother of all NSA's (The NNA) is going to publish a "suggested fee" schedule, as they actually did not so long ago, the fees should be broken down into what I see as the relevant components of an assignment and not made into a single all-inclusive fee. The dentist charges for each filling, and if he dicovers that you need two instead of one, you pay for two. Get your oil changed and if the mechanic discovers you also need an air filter you pay for an air filter. What we are doing is selling a professional service where the scope of our activities can easily be extended without any advance warning, and IMHO someone other than the notary should "eat" the cost of the surprise.
Remember this, it's the borrower who is coughing up the money for our services, not the title company, the loan company or the signing service. Unfortunately our contract isn't with the borrower, but they are paying the bill all the same.
Again, I think the one-fee, all circumstances whatsoever business model needs revision. You as an IC can charge whatever you want, any way you want, I just want to be paid for the efforts expended and if there are surprises I want to be compensated as if I knew about them upfront.
| Reply by PA_Notary_II on 10/18/06 2:33pm
Msg #153351
DavidK....you silly boy...
While you're thinking, assume that the TC had (as in the old days) a staff of 3 whose job consisted of printing, downloading, copying etc etc....all the things you mention. AND those 3 employees each were paid $10 per hour X 40 hours X 50 weeks per year. That comes to $20,000 per year for each employee. Oh, did I mention the cost of business machines, paper, toner, ink, personal hygiene products, coffee, kleenex etc etc etc....Now why in the world would a TC or signing agency go through that expense when you and I will do it on the cheap.
(BTW...$150 per deal in this regard is on the cheap) Oops, I forgot the cost of overnite mailings of which these Companies save one half through e-mail. You see my point, I hope. To complicate all this, you should be accepting LOWER fees because it is a declining market???
(In reality, we should be increasing our prices to make up the shortfall) Sooner or later I will get out of this business and leave it to the buzzards that now run and control it. Until then, I'll stick arount just for kicks and giggles. (That's about all that's left)
| Reply by davidK/CA on 10/18/06 2:50pm
Msg #153357
Re: DavidK....you silly boy...
So are you saying that the collusion (strong word accidentally and of course unintended usage) between the various types of "assigning to the notary the work" companies makes you accept most of their former costs to save them money and then makes you compete against many new starving and inexperienced notarys for whatever dollars are to be bestowed upon you? (Convoluted sentence intended to make a point.)
Surely you can't believe that is even possible. Say it ain't so, Joe!
What a business it used to be just a few years ago. Maybe with my pricing structure it could return to it's former glory (and profit).
| Reply by PA_Notary_II on 10/18/06 2:53pm
Msg #153358
Re: DavidK....you silly boy...
yah.....what you said...
| Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/18/06 3:10pm
Msg #153365
You've got to be kidding, thats exactly whats happening n/m
| Reply by D_Arias/FL on 10/18/06 3:42pm
Msg #153385
Minimum Fee Structures
Minimu Fee Structure below was copied from the NNA site .. they say it is from the "winter edition" but not sure of what year.
They surely don't take into account the increasing Cost of Living Index, increased cost of paper, supplies, not to mention gasoline, electricity ... I could go on and on. But I find the bottom line is .. I need to eat and keep a roof over my head ... A girls gotta do what a girls gotta do to survive. If a SS is unreasonable turn the job down .. some else WILL take it. It's up to you as to how much business you can afford to lose. Maybe if we unionized it would be a different matter .. but then the TC/Lenders would probably go back to in-house closings.
The fee schedule, introduced in the winter edition of NSA Today, recommends that Certified Notary Signing Agents receive at least $65 for the first set of loan documents, while the base fee for noncertified Signing Agents is $50.
Here is the schedule of minimum fees for Notary Signing Agents:
Certified Signing Agent Minimum Fees
First set of loan documents $65
Second set of loan documents $35
E-mailed loan documents $85
Cancellation (two hours or less) $35
Noncertified Signing Agent Minimum Fees
First set of loan documents $50
Second set of loan documents $25
E-mailed loan documents $75
Cancellation (two hours or less) $25
"The new schedule of minimum fees is not a legal requirement but rather a strong recommendation based on fair treatment to all parties involved in a loan transaction," said NNA President Milt Valera.
"Self-regulation in the industry is preferred over the difficult process of enacting minimum fee laws in all 50 states," Valera said.
| Reply by LisaWI on 10/18/06 4:06pm
Msg #153391
Re: Minimum Fee Structures
These are the same fees they had 2 years ago when I was researching this profession. I read somewhere, that not raising your fees to adjust to the cost of living is an insane approach to running your business. This was the same place I got some new ideas for marketing that is working for me so far. But again, its up to each and every individual how they run their business.
| Reply by PA_Notary_II on 10/18/06 6:06pm
Msg #153416
Re: Maximum Fee Structures:NNA
Basic Membership : $10. per year
Certification: additional $5 per year
BGC with or without the above: $12
Considering the fees they expect us to work for, I think these are the max fees they are entitled to. (and they don't even EARN it!)
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