Posted by David Kral on 10/18/06 1:30pm
Msg #153332

NY Notaries where is Elliot Spitzer?

Come on NY Notaries. This whole you must be certified by "us" debate. A headline grabbing State Attorney General is needed. Where is Elliot Spitzer?

Is NY going to let some perhaps CA organization push it around?

Telling NY how its notaries have to act? Hmm, in effect, regulating NY notaries? I mean we are not talking about building widgets here, but a function where you are required to have a public license issued by the State of NY.

Financial and title companies requiring NY notaries to have EXCLUSIVE certification from an out-state privately held investor controlled organization? Who are these people that are going to get this confidential information? Many of those financial, title and signing services indicating they will only use notaries "certified" by this organization. In order to get certified, you must purchase this government 'background check from this privately held investor organization.

Hmmm certification, does the training suggest, influence or indoctrinate on how a notary should act? Does the training say "Do not talk about the loan?" "Or talk through the loan in this way", even though you are neither an attorney nor a NY or federally regulated financial institution employee?

Eliot might want to look into whether a notary is only paid if a loan closes has a contingent financial interest in the transaction. Or frequently suffers not getting paid if a transaction does not close. Are notaries influenced in anyway for the borrower to sign? Borrower... "Do these fees look high to you?" "Is this rate competitive?" Etc. Does the certification course comply with all the laws of the State of New York related to loans, mortgages, discrimination, fair housing? And yet the five or six big title companies who get the bulk of their business from a few of the largest mortgage companies are requiring a check and certification from possibly one organization they may be working with exclusively. "Whisper... we will require notaries to get certification from you....and wink wink...."we would want the training manuals to read like this...."

It would be one thing if it were real estate training courses offered by schools often licensed with a curriculum approved by the state's real estate licensing division, but here it may be an out-state privately held investor controlled institution neither licensed nor regulated by the state suggesting through a certification process on how a state notary should act.

Of course if there were multiple ways to provide the required information or get the certification the financial companies might argue they do not control the process, but with only one place to go? No open standard. Hmmmm.

(Of course, Elliot frequently believes that large financial institutions are always right and likely would not want to take on the task of pursuing them. Those institutions tend to have the best interests of the public at heart which is why:

-Allocating IPOs to select clients and key employees of financial institutions served the public well.
-Not to mention putting buy ratings on stocks but privately selling them without telling the public.
-Mutual fund companies steering clients to in house products and not passing along breakeven fees.

So he likely will have no problem with high rate lenders sometimes with in house title companies and signing services mandating notaries purchase credentials from one organization and that organization in turn requiring those credentials to be purchase to be certified in a course the organization notaries are direct to training suggests how notaries should act in the business situation where the financial stakes are high, terms of the loan change last minutes and the notary might not get paid if the deal does not go through.

What about the singing services? Do they realize they are at risk on multiple fronts? They often get documents. Do ALL of their employees have to join the organization as they might come into contact with confidential information? Hmmm then big national signing services might be able to run them out of business and consolidate the industry even more. How convenient for the big nationwide signing companies to have a single source to look to see where all local signing companies are across the country. Nothing like having a well defined target list to run your competitors out of business. After all, the signing companies will likely need to join this organization so they can process the confidential information from the financial companies. Then the big signing companies can drive down fees even more for the big financial companies. Wonder if I had an exclusive certification process if I might not want to expand my business someday and become a signing service. It could be very streamlined, the tittle companies call as this organization is a single source for certified notaries and thus no need for independent signing services.


Originators--Title companies---->one combined certifying organization and signing company(many other signing companies eliminated)---->notaries.


Come on think about it. A background check might be $100 buck and a signing course $150 and good for multiple years, let's say two year or $75.00 on average. Yet, if this organization could be the signing service and simply make net $10 per loan signing after expenses on one loan per month per notary, it would make $120 per year. At 2 per month per notary it would be $240 per year(4x what they might be making now. Who could resist that? What is the $10 net profit is low? What if it is $50 per transaction it could be $1200 to $2400 per year times many notaries). Similar to the printer manufacturer's, the other organization should simply give the certification way for free(cheap printer(the old Xerox model)) in order to sell the high profit margin signing service(the toner(I miss that old waxy Xerox paper…got high from the fumes)).

So are hypothetical big signing services such as, Directly National, SOCKS, etc, that might potentially have the ability to put them out of business in favor of a single source for certification or could they(more like should they for their own self preservation) accept an open standard document, especially when it is a government background check to begin with? Hmmmm perhaps those independent signing services now see an anticompetitive threat to their business ? Perhaps the independent signing companies now have very vested interest in seeing other places such as Notary Rotary being around.

(And what about just plain common sense? Usually when there is only one source to get something everyone else suffers. Either prices are to high, quality of service suffers or things not kosher start to happen and without the ability for the market to move to another source, the market suffers.)

Hmm a private organization collecting a lot of confidential information on NY notaries? Hmm how is that information handled? Just floating around out there in CA?

Charging fees that NY has neither no control over nor gets a piece of the fees on a federal government supplied background check? How much is this critical check marked up over cost? What is deficient in the way NY regulates backgrounds on its notaries? Apparently that deficiency is acceptable for NY notaries in other acts they perform. Perhaps NY notaries will be required to get multiple background checks, but doesn't that seem to drive up the cost and go against the philosophy that notarization is typically provided at a fairly low cost to public?

NY and NY notarizes getting pushed around by some out-state organization. Hmmm. That doesn't sound like something a New Yorker would do. Perhaps NY with some of the wealthiest real estate and biggest loans and mortgages has gone soft?

Reply by David Kruss on 10/18/06 1:52pm
Msg #153337

I wish I had said all that!

Here in CA we already must have a background check by the CA Department of Justice to get commissioned. Live Scan fingerprints. Take a test that includs ethical questions. Purchase a state mandated bond. Take an oath of office at the county offices, etc.

But is that enough for the NNA? Not if they are going to survive financially as a profit making organization when membership numbers decline. IMHO many professional notarys that I talk to are simply not renewing their membership in the NNA because they see no advantage to being a member. They see the results of way too many notarys working on the cheap and all the real profits going to the title companys, the lendors and the signing services. $50 or $75 doesn't cut it when our costs of doing business have risen so much. Now let's add another cost to stay in business and keep the NNA happy. I think not.

Note to the NNA lawyers: The above is my opinion only.