Posted by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 8:42pm
Msg #152882

Nations Direct background check

Well, I finally had the first company actually ask me to comply with the NNA's background check program. They are saying it needs to be done by Dec. 1.

This is the e-mail I received:
Recently, the Federal Government initiated and passed the law referred to as the Gramm Leach Bliley Act (GLBA) to protect consumer's personal and private info rmation. Lenders, Title Companies, Signing Companies, and Notaries are being forced to comply with this new law. The law requires a notary submit to background checks, testing, and must become certified. With this, Nations Direct will be adhering to this requirement. Effective December 01, 2006, we will require that every signing agent provide proof of certification. Any agent unable to do so, will be entered into inactive status.


The National Notary Association (NNA) has developed a solution to ease the certification process and make it cost effective for the agent. We are encouraging all agents to notify the NNA immediately to begin the certification process. Also, to learn more about this new law, please go to: http://www.nationalnotary.org/NSAcertification/.

Reply by mtcwgrl on 10/16/06 8:47pm
Msg #152884

Well I look at it this way....if they can shop around for the cheapest notary...we should be able to shop around for the cheapest BGC! IMHO!!

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 8:48pm
Msg #152885

So, if all of the notaries refuse to do the NNA background check/certification, will they go out of business?

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/16/06 9:08pm
Msg #152887

Key words: Nations Direct will be adhering to this requirement.
Right, wrong or indifferent--they want it. And they don't want to pay for it as they have done in the past . You should.
'nother bunch of key words in 2nd paragraph: "has developed a solution."
Note, please they do NOT say 'the' solution or 'only' solution!
So, yes, please do shop around very carefully. Whatever you find can't be more expensive than paying to join an organization; paying to belong to a certain sector of that organization; paying to be certified by that same organization and...finally....being able to pay some more for the BGC.
For other purposes, I just had a BGC including live scan fingerprints run thru the FBI for $26.95. Shop around!

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 9:15pm
Msg #152888

HARRY--do you have a cert, program available for us? N/M n/m

Reply by PAW on 10/16/06 9:22pm
Msg #152889

My response

The following is an email (in its entirety) that I sent back to Nations Direct:
-------------------------------------------------

-----Begin Original Message-----

Recently, the Federal Government initiated and passed the law referred to as the Gramm Leach Bliley Act (GLBA) to protect consumer's personal and private information. Lenders, Title Companies, Signing Companies, and Notaries are being forced to comply with this new law. The law requires a notary submit to background checks, testing, and must become certified. With this, Nations Direct will be adhering to this requirement. Effective December 01, 2006, we will require that every signing agent provide proof of certification. Any agent unable to do so, will be entered into inactive status.

The National Notary Association (NNA) has developed a solution to ease the certification process and make it cost effective for the agent. We are encouraging all agents to notify the NNA immediately to begin the certification process. Also, to learn more about this new law, please go to: http://www.nationalnotary.org/NSAcertification/.

Email:[e-mail address]
-----End of Original Message-----

Is this email valid? Why do I ask? Because the message above if fraught with errors, misconceptions and promotes anti-trust violations.

First, the GLBA isn't recent, unless you consider 7 years recent. It was passed and signed into law on November 12, 1999. To me, this is a far cry from being a recent development.

Second. Nowhere in the Act does it specify mandatory background checks, testing and certification. If Nations Direct feels that the GLBA does require that, please show me the section of the Act, or any of the ancillary rules (such as the Safeguard Rules) that specify notaries are required to have any of the so-called required items; background check, or testing, or certification.

Third, by requiring that notaries be certified by the NNA to work with Nations Direct is, in my opinion, a violation of the Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914. If you are not requiring NNA certification, then please tell me what certifications do you accept. Otherwise, a formal request to investigate antitrust violations by Nations Direct and the NNA will be submitted to the Federal Trade Commission.

A copy this email is being forwarded to numerous public signing agent forums, bulletin boards and message boards.


Regards,
Paul Williamson
Notary Public, State of Florida
Registered and Certified Notary Signing Agent and Instructor

PAW Notary Services
39033 Woodland Dr.
Zephyrhills, FL 33542-6765
Phn: 813-468-0084
Fax: 813-779-2865
mailto[e-mail address]
Website: http://www.PAWnotary.com

I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication may be confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. Thank you.

Reply by Zana Darrow on 10/16/06 9:26pm
Msg #152890

and there is this

From the FBI site in regards to who can request a background check

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/backgroundchk.htm

Seeing that we are independent contractors. how can an org.request it? Am I missing something?

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/16/06 9:26pm
Msg #152891

I am zrdarrow n/m

Reply by larry Schaffer on 10/16/06 9:28pm
Msg #152892

I also responded....

asking them if the only background check that they would accept is the one from NNA. we'll see what they say.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/16/06 9:35pm
Msg #152893

As for the NNA certification

Refer them to the post from earlier today from a NNA certified notary #152838. Perfect example of what the objections are about

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 9:45pm
Msg #152895

Re: As for the NNA certification

I was certified by the NNA four years ago and chose not to be re-certified. A few of the companies I've done business with over the last few years informed me that they don't care if I am certified or not, as long as I know the laws in the state in which I'm signing.

I did learn a lot from the course because I started my business from scratch with no help via mentors or forums; however, I don't see a need to get re-certified every two years like they require. I too, have never had a question answered correctly when I called their "hotline". Every time I called, I was told to call the Title company or signing agency that hired me.

I will get the FBI check if it will pass as the background check. Thanks for the info, Zana!

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/16/06 9:55pm
Msg #152904

JoJo

We can do certified copies for each other. Pg 28 Of the Wi Notary handbook.

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 9:56pm
Msg #152905

Re: JoJo

Thanks, we can have our own certifying party!!!

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/16/06 9:59pm
Msg #152909

You got it! n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/16/06 10:18pm
Msg #152915

Way to go, Paul! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/17/06 2:31am
Msg #152933

Re: My response

Thanks for posting, Paul. You addressed several of the issues I was wondering about.

**IMHO**, it seems to be more than a bit disengenuous for the NNA to accuse some of us of libeling them, while making comments that appear to be so blatantly misleading to justify this latest action.

Another point that I haven't seen anyone else mention here is that it seems that many believe that the NNA has done more to hurt our profession in recent years than to help it by continuing to flood the market with new NSAs, by promoting a recommended pay schedule lower than what many of us have been making, by giving out incorrect information from their Hotline, etc. And they are still actively promoting people to "make big money" as an NSA in a slowing market. While many of us might have once respected the NNA, their actions have (in my opinion) caused many of us to lose that respect. And now it appears that there is an attempt to manipulate us into paying to support an organization that, not only do we no longer approve of, we feel is hurting us. I believe this is at the heart of why what appears to be an anti-trust action rankles so much. Again, JMHO!! (Did I qualify this enough?????)

The email Paul quoted stated the following: "The law requires a notary submit to background checks, testing, and must become certified. [sic]" But so far, it seems that the only source for this information has been the NNA. I wonder what kind of effect it would have if the CEOs of the signing services and title companies in question started receiving a pile of letters letting them know what we feel about this latest communication by the NNA....

BTW, am I the only one who finds it interesting that the NNA uses a ".org" as their *primary* web address? Out of curiosity, I checked to see if they were listed in a database of 1.5 million non-profit organizations that have been properly registered with the IRS. For the record, the "National Notary Association" was NOT listed. However, they have an offshoot called the "National Notary Foundation" which IS registered as an official non-profit. There was a somewhat significant fee to get a full report on them, so I didn't pursue it, but I think it would be very interesting to see what portion of their activities is represented by the Foundation that enables them to use the ".org". It is my opinion that many notaries believe the NNA is a "not-for-profit" association (for the benefit of notaries, as they claim to be) because of this, and NOT a "for-profit" business enterprise, which it actually is. (I have no opinion about the work done by the National Notary Foundation, which I know very little about. None of these statements should be considered any reflection on that particular organization.)

This entire statement is MY OPINION ONLY!! In case I didn't make myself clear..... ;>

Reply by AndyJ on 10/17/06 11:07am
Msg #153001

Re: My response

The most telling sign that they are not a true non-profit is by looking at their postage on their mailings. If they were truly non-profit, they would be able to save a huge chunk of money if they used their non-profit status. In fact, the only contributions made to the National Notary Foundation in the past few years were by the officers of that org.

Although what I am saying is likely 100% fact, I am qualifying these statements as my own personal opinions...how sad that we are scared of being litigated by this altrusitic company.

Reply by PAW on 10/17/06 3:00pm
Msg #153080

Re: My response - ND's response

The following is a copy of the contents (in its entireity) of the email that I received from Heather Walters of Nations Direct:

--------------------------------------------

It is not a requirement - and you can be certified through a number of agencies/seminars (all are accepted) we are merely sending the email out to update our records to whom is certified or not. Again, it is not a requirement merely a preference we used the NNA as they are more commonly known than others. We will be sending out another blast email to our signing agents clarifying this.

Thank You

Signing Agent Division
Heather A. Walters
160 S. Old Springs Rd. Suite# 260
Anaheim Hills, CA 92808
(800) 969-7779 ext 4454
Fx# (866) 729-6559
Email:[e-mail address]
www.signing-services.com

Reply by MelissaCT on 10/16/06 9:37pm
Msg #152894

Re: Where in the law does it state

where in the law does it state that you have to become certified???

"The law requires a notary submit to background checks, testing, and **must become certified**"

Reply by Larry/Ca on 10/16/06 9:45pm
Msg #152896

Re: Where in the law does it state

I asked them this in my response to them, I'm thinking they mean a certified background check not Ceritfied Signing Agent. I like PAW's response to them

Larry

Reply by MelissaCT on 10/16/06 9:46pm
Msg #152897

wth their fees & ridiculous fax backs, they can drop me from their list for non-compliance with their NNA brainwashing at any time. Thanks!

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 9:50pm
Msg #152899

I Agree--turned one away today. N/M n/m

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/16/06 9:51pm
Msg #152900

Re: It would appear that a certain nn organization

might be in bed with a few lenders........hummmmmmmm

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 9:54pm
Msg #152903

Re: It would appear that a certain nn organization

carefull--that could be considered slander (or libel?)sp??. Already had warnings from NNA attorney

Reply by MelissaCT on 10/16/06 9:56pm
Msg #152906

Re: Sorry, my OPINION only... n/m

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 9:58pm
Msg #152907

Was replying to LkArrowhd/CA... n/m

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/16/06 9:58pm
Msg #152908

Re: I named no names..... n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/16/06 10:00pm
Msg #152910

..and I am not an attorney n/m

Reply by PAW on 10/16/06 10:09pm
Msg #152912

but did you play one on TV ... n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/16/06 10:15pm
Msg #152914

Re: but did you play one on TV ...

That was Grandpa Darrow's cousin, Clarence. It was not TV it was the news reels in the silent movie theater

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/17/06 6:42am
Msg #152943

Re: I named no names..... LkA - you also said

"It appears..."

That's "opinion" wording, not stated as fact.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/17/06 11:11am
Msg #153002

Re: I named no names..... LkA - you also said- Why thank you

Miss Brenda I do try to always choose my words very carefully.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/16/06 10:32pm
Msg #152919

Re: It would appear that...we better get the facts straight

It isn't libel if it's true. Slander is spoken. Libel is written.
This law has been in effect for 7 years! IF--big highly questionable & no evidence that it's true--IF, we need it now, why didn't we need it 7 years ago??? Let's all remember 100k in E & O and Enjoa... History is repeating itself. We are all Independent Contractors. Act like one!

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/16/06 11:00pm
Msg #152923

Re: It would appear that...we better get the facts straight

Right on--and thanks for the verification re: slander/libel.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/16/06 10:44pm
Msg #152922

OT but relevant

There are many organizations, associations, clubs, groups, societies in this country that anyone can CHOOSE to become a member of-- or not. Elks, Moose, Red Hat, Vikings, PTA, Woodsmen of America, Eagles (now, I'm not really sure about all of these, but you get the idea.) You DECIDE to join. Nobody from any of these organizations forces you to join; nor can they. The NNA is such an organization; as is the American Society of Notaries...and there are probably a number of other such organizations around. Don't just fall in line like sheep and follow a Judas goat. For you non-country folks, a Judas goat is the goat that leads sheep to slaughter.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 10/16/06 11:08pm
Msg #152925

In a pracitcal world....

I don't think it matters much how unfair being forced to submit to the NNA's background check seems and of course being independent contractor nobody can really force me. The mounting number of e-mails I get from those who use my services stating they will drop me from their database makes me think that come January I might be signing up with the NNA simply to preserve my income. It's a practical matter

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/17/06 12:54am
Msg #152932

In a pracitcal world....you're in CA. You've been BGC'd!

I understand your concern...but please think about & explore alternatives. You go along to get along...what's to prevent adding another hoop for you to jump thru? I'm exaggerating to make my point: We all must have uniforms. Next badges. Briefcases with official logo. See what I mean? At what point will you grow weary of handing them money for things you don't want or need?

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/17/06 4:30am
Msg #152937

Hindsight & foresight , and what is really practical?

Who planted the seed for the $50 signing fees?
Who planted the seed that grew into a field saturated with NSA's
Who planted the seed that devalued the knowlege & skill required to perform with what professional NSA's consider beneficial to their industry?
Who planted the seed that fed the saturated field with illusions of grandeur?
Who planted the seed that fed your clients with a field saturated with disillusioned NSA's willing to work for $50 signing fees?
How has that affected you, me, us, the industry at large?

How many of us entered this field under the false impression of any particular entity - bolstered or not by the .org affiliation and the assumptions we tend to make regarding non-profit entities - based upon a vast internet presence, more than any other factor?

How many of us have seen extreme changes within our field, in the context of our profit & loss margins and in the context of our client base, relative to the timing of the aforementioned seeds being cast locally?

What potential benefit or harm could there be in any ONE, single organization who might or might not be benevolent to the industry it 'serves', becoming an organization who's membership NUMBERS suddenly swell to encompass 70, 80, 90% of the entire industry? What if that organization was NOT benevolent - yet was provided the extreme illusion of the support of 90% of the industry?

Hindsight is looking backwards - foresight is looking into the future. Do you think that what you're calling "practical", Larry, only looks at the hyphen in the middle of that sentence?

These are purely hypothetical questions and I do not have any of the answers.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/17/06 12:19pm
Msg #153029

Good post Renee, people forget that Adolph Hitler was

elected domocratically and by popular vote as was Napoleon an then they both usurped power. Userpers don't enter with great bravado with their intent on a banner, they insinuate themselves and then tighten their grip. This has been repeated many times in history. Usually this happens when otherwise good people are not paying attention and always happens incrementally.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/17/06 12:38pm
Msg #153030

Standing ovation, Renee'

Re: Hindsight & foresight , and what is really practical?

This is best post I have read on NotaryRotary.com in my memory.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/18/06 12:00am
Msg #153236

Re: Hindsight & foresight , and what is really practical?

Very well put!! I hope this message doesn't get lost by being a few pages back... Thanks for such a well thought out response that really gets to the heart of the issue!

Reply by Jon on 10/18/06 1:18am
Msg #153247

Re: Hindsight & foresight , and what is really practical?

I know the answer to all of your questions, but I'm not telling!!!!