Posted by Chuck/CA on 10/29/06 10:57am
Msg #155940

Need help with a question being asked.

I am in the State of California. I'm in the process of signing up with a Company to provide signing service and have been asked the following question: "What are the laws regarding non-borrowing persons on title in your state?" What would the proper response be? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/29/06 11:05am
Msg #155944

The proper response would be. " Well, geeze, I don't know my state notary laws yet, so sorry for thinking I was qualified". "I'm not ready to be a signing agent".

Reply by Teddog/CO on 10/29/06 11:09am
Msg #155945

Ouch! n/m

Reply by Chuck/CA on 10/29/06 11:25am
Msg #155950

Your so sweet....... Was just looking for help in wording a short response.

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/29/06 4:02pm
Msg #156006

Yes, you were looking for help in a response.

But the point is, if you don't know the response then you are not ready to sign up with anyone. This is as basic as it gets. Yes, I remember what it's like to be new. I also remember that I didn't sign up with anyone until I knew certain basics. You're just not there yet.

And I agree with those that say it's UPL for you to make the determination. But it's still essential for you to know. UPL doesn't mean that you can't identify a potential problem and make a phone call. Again, it's the difference between a notary and a signing agent, the difference between a professional and a hobbyist.

Sweet is irrelevant. You got better than sweet. You got truth.

Reply by Distant1 on 10/29/06 11:36am
Msg #155958

I think this response is the reason that I have been so afraid to start REALLY participating in this board....and then at the same time what convinced me to actually post.

First, while I do not have the answer to your question, Chuck...the ADULT and PROFESSIONAL thing for me to do is NOT RESPOND....Sarcastic commentary from people who THINK they have all the answers makes a bad name for the entire board.

I have not been a member here for very long, but I read ALL of the posts....and look to the posters experiences to help move me to the next level...that is what this board is all about...unfortunately...some posters should obviously be ignored....and you just found one of them.

Just my opinion....

-deb

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/29/06 11:41am
Msg #155962

distant1, you just admitted you have no business dealing with people's finances either. Not sarcastic, just fact.

Reply by KBLedgard_CA on 10/29/06 11:55am
Msg #155964

Distant, the truth hurt? Maybe you should go to that "Barney" forum where everyone gets the sugar-coated answer no matter how inept the "notary" is. Charm DOES knw her stuff and should get the respect she deserves. Obviously, this poster has NOT put any effort in trying to answer this question on their own. If they attempted to answer this, that should've been included in the post. From my personal experience, I've always been helped when i asked for help when I showed I tried to help myself first.

Chuck, study your state laws before accepting any assignment. Know your state laws inside & out. Until then, carefully walk away from your stamp and embosser.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/29/06 11:56am
Msg #155965

>>>First, while I do not have the answer to your question, Chuck...<<<

Deb, the point is that any CA signing agent SHOULD know this BEFORE facilitating any loan signings. I believe Cham was right on target.

And Chuck, if you just need help in wording your answer, why not post what you would like to say and ask for some assistance. All we ask for here is a little effort. No one deserves to have test questions handed to them just because they paid for a membership on this board. DO your homework, show some effort and then ask for assistance. I'll guarantee you'll get better results when using this approach.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/29/06 12:26pm
Msg #155973

This a basic test and a basic question.

This is not signing agent forum 101.
I think the testing entitity is testing your knowledge, not mine.
Do your due diligence!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/29/06 1:13pm
Msg #155983

Re: Need help with a question being asked. - Charm

But the question has nothing to do with notary laws. That comes under the Real Estate laws I believe.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/29/06 1:24pm
Msg #155988

right Sylvia...

mistated, however the jist is the same.

Reply by Pamela on 10/29/06 1:30pm
Msg #155991

Sylvia,

Very Smart!

I hope that Chuck's post wasn't a "test" question
for those of us who are (somewhat) new (smile).

Pam

Reply by BP/WV on 10/29/06 11:30am
Msg #155954

Chuck

Start with post #134139. If that does not contain the info you seek, do a seacrh on keywords:

Community Property
Homestead
Spousal States

Reply by Pamela on 10/29/06 11:33am
Msg #155957

Chuck,

Do a search on the Orange Tab, for "non-borrower".
Hopefully you will find what you are searching for.

Next, whenever you sign-up with a company and are
requested to complete a test, answer each question
to the best of your ability.

If you do not pass the test do not worry.
Go back and re-read the notary handbook and
the various notary boards, until you have learned
notarial laws and duties. At a later date,
return to the company and apply to take the test again.

Many signing companies will also work with you
(if you let them know that you are new and still learning)
until you have "learned the ropes".

However, most title companies do not have the time
(nor inclination) "to train" new people and will usually work
with experienced signing agents only.

Hope this helps!

And, I am also in California.

Pam

Reply by sue_pa on 10/29/06 1:02pm
Msg #155977

My response would be

My response would be: I do not know nor do I care. I get the documents signed per the instructions provided by my client on each individual basis. As a signing agent I do not make the legal determination at the table as to who signs what documents. There are too many variables in people's lives for us to decide this VERY important legal step in the process.

While I personally think a lot of people on these boards are completely paranoid about UPL, making the decision to have someone sign or not sign a document crosses the line - no matter what the 'norm' is.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/29/06 1:15pm
Msg #155984

Re: My response would be - Good response Sue:)

It would be UPL for us to determine who signs what docs

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/29/06 4:10pm
Msg #156008

Sue, I don't agree with your response

Just to repost what I typed in another part of this thread:

I agree with those that say it's UPL for you to make the determination. But it's still essential for you to know. UPL doesn't mean that you can't identify a potential problem and make a phone call. Again, it's the difference between a notary and a signing agent, the difference between a professional and a hobbyist.

Sue, no one said we have to make the decision. But the knowledge is still vital. So, if you really feel that you do not know and you do not care, I think you're doing your companies a huge disservice.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/29/06 6:33pm
Msg #156038

Re: Sue, I don't agree with your response

I was stating what my response would be to any signing service asking me that question.

I do know that in my state a nonborrowing spouse is not required to sign anything but about 90% of the time lenders/title companies require it. I see somewhere else in this thread that someone states that a nonborrower must sign the TIL - I know of 2 loans that I do all the time that don't require it - why, I've got no idea. So while I agree that anyone knowing their job will check with their client when there is a question, I absolutely, positively don't think we HAVE to know these kinds of things, especially new people that read these boards and take these tests and possibly interpret these interpretations as gospel.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/30/06 6:06am
Msg #156078

correction

I was delerious from just gorging myself at the Olive Garden when I typed this last evening.

My first sentence should be when a spouse isn't on the deed that many times they are having them sign certain docs. The rest applies to nonborrowing spouses who aren't signing the Note.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 10/29/06 1:17pm
Msg #155985

Chuck

The nonborrowing spouce on title needs to sign certain docs also. But here's the way I see it. I am a signing agent not a title officer. The papers should be drawn properly when I get them. If I recieve docs and the nobs name appears no where and there are no instructions I call the hiring entity, explain the situation, and ask for instruction on how they want this one done. I do this because the answer is not always the same. Also I slip a note in with the package stating spoke to so and so and their instructions.

Reply by Aud on 10/29/06 3:04pm
Msg #156001

Re: Chuck

Wow, I can't believe how cold some of these responses were. We were all new at one time, and no training give it ALL to you. Here's the deal in the real world. In states that give vested rights to marriage partner (community property states like California and Florida in particular), the nonborrowing partner (whether or not they are even on title) needs to sign certain documents to allow the borrowing partner to borrow against their property. These documents are the mortgage (or deed of trust?), right to cancel, truth in lending. There are also documents from the title company that may need to be signed by both parties, and they should tell you which ones those are. However, as I referred to the real world, often there is no one available to ask when you are the signing, so you better review these documents and/or ask the questions when you receive the documents. It is extremely common for documents that need to be signed by borrower and vested-nonborrower do NOT have the nonborrower's name printed on it. Many (most? all?) signing companies and title companies expect their notary signing agents to have some worldliness regarding these documents and to know when to ask about the documents when they get lazy with filling in the names on the documents they send. Also, lenders print the mortgages without the nonborrower's name on it all the time, and they still need them signed. Knowing these things is the difference between a skilled and experienced notary signing agent and a novice.

I hope that helps.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 10/29/06 3:42pm
Msg #156003

And what lesson did you just teach

that if someone is patient enough they don't have to do anything for themselves, just wait long enough and someone will give you your answers. Yes, we all were new at one time and some of us even before the advent of notary boards. What did we do? We did a search on the internet (and this was pre google days), purchased e-books, etc to learn how to do our craft. No one was mean or hateful in the above responses, but most of us believe that it is better to teach someone to fish and feed them for a lifetime than to give them a fish and feed them for a day. Things that are freely given with no effort on our part (similiar to cramming for an exam in school) vs studying and discovering the answer ourselves are the difference between memorizing or copying answers to tests just to pass them and learning them and retaining that knowledge. Of course, along those same lines, we are also teaching our competition to be competition. If answers to tests are given out and that person passes the test (and happens to be in your service area) you've just given that SS another person to call. And if being new they think that the way to obtain business is to cut the price, who did you really hurt?

Although your answer was almost correct you left out one important detail.

Reply by Aud on 10/29/06 4:02pm
Msg #156007

Re: And what lesson did you just teach

Oh, I see. Things have to be painful and full of trial and error to be remembered.... Perhaps he's already done a frustrating and fruitless search (like I did when I was new) and could not find a clear cut answer (as I could not). Then what do you do? I'm really sorry, but your response was sad to me. My answer, of course, could not be complete because each state has slightly different requirements as well. One company I work for includes a copy of the required documents to be signed by the nonborrower as a chart listing required documents by state.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 10/29/06 4:22pm
Msg #156012

I guess it's the way the question was phrased...

That he was signing up with a SS and the question was "what does YOUR State...." I may not be as intelligent as others here BUT I most definitely know what my state requires.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/06 4:35pm
Msg #156020

Re: I sort of agree with you Sue...

I know what my state requires too - the problem is as a Notary that's not our call - I want it in writing from the lender what they want the NOBS to sign - I think sue pa's answer was spot on...IMHO

Reply by SueW/Tn on 10/29/06 4:40pm
Msg #156023

Yep yep...I agree also TO AN EXTENT

I travel the same road Al is on with this one, at least upon review an SA can make a phone call to head off a problem at the table. I would NEVER in a zillion years make that determination on my own BUT we know if we're in a spousal state, most lenders deal with so many that at times things are overlooked. Doesn't make it right but doesn't make it go away either. IF there's no RTC and you know it's a refi requiring one...do you call and ask where it's at or just go to the signing without it because it's "not our job" to insure all docs that should be there, are.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/06 4:42pm
Msg #156025

Re: Yep yep...I agree also TO AN EXTENT...yep - went back

and re-read it and, dangit, shoulda worded that a bit different - you can't not care - it's something you need to know - but it's not our call to make.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/29/06 4:29pm
Msg #156017

Re: Aud your absolutely have a point, we all research and

and have different study habits. And perhaps a different answer from a different person from a different state is what Chuck was looking for to compare and take notes, along with reading his state laws and of course the state law is the ruling force.
Competition is always going to be lurking around the corner, it's the monster of the business. I can't waste my time or worry about the next new kids on the block, life is too full too rich and I'm too busy for such nonsense.
In life there will always be those that could have taken a more gentle kinder approach, consider the source and let it go as well......I too have made poor choices in life, said things that weren't nice but I work on getting better everyday.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/06 2:25am
Msg #156070

Another important lesson....

I am always harping on this board about being careful who you listen to here. You will learn more and will more likely discover the right answer by doing your own searching, because there is a lot of incorrect info given out here - sometimes because state laws are different, but other times it seems like people learn a little bit about something and jump to conclusions prematurely.

Aud, I have to say that I think you are partially wrong, at least as far as California is concerned. Most of the time, your answer would be correct about what docs need to be signed by the non-borrowing spouse, especially if they are on title. However, there are a variety of circumstances (again, it's CA I'm talking about) where this may not be necessary, depending on what other documents might have been previously signed and recorded that we have no way of knowing about (e.g. an Interspousal Transfer Deed). I completely agree with Sue pa that it is not our determination to make.