Posted by John_NorCal on 10/20/06 11:16pm
Msg #154076

Question about NNA and National Notary Foundation......

just received a renewal notice from them (for Feb renewal at that) and I noticed a check mark to make a donation to the "National Notary Foundation." It supposed to support scholarship, education research, .........philanthropic projects. Its supposedly a 501 c non-profit organization. Never heard of it, just wonder who controls it and what it actually does. Being affiliated or promoted by the NNA makes me wonder about their true intentions.

Reply by SvetSFBay on 10/20/06 11:24pm
Msg #154079

http://www.nationalnotary.org/about/index.cfm?text=nnfMain

If you've ever seen National Notary Magazine by NNA, National Notary Foundation is heavily 'marketed' in each issue. Who controls it?I think only one guess is needed...

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/20/06 11:27pm
Msg #154080

John, it is a 501(c)3 and is fully controlled by NNA

I have been trying to research their actual incorporation docs and it is quite convoluted. The Governor's page in Florida lists the NNA itself as a non-profit, I have not been able to determine if they are incorporated as a 501(c)3 or a regular S corp. I also know that I am not the only one looking into this and the trail is hard to find.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/21/06 12:02am
Msg #154090

This answer is NOT NNA related , but I think that....

you are mixing apples and oranges.
In most states, a corporation is incorporated as
either a for profit ( as least the owners intend to make a profit)
or a not for profit. (usually several types)
501(c)3 is a provision of the federal income tax act.
All 501(c) 3 corps are not for profit corps, but not all not for
profit corps are 501(c)3s
To qualify as a 501(c)3 you need to conduct yourself and provide
money and/or services for charitable purposes as defined in the IRS
statutes and regs. Examples are religious, services for poor, arts etc.
If a corp qualifies as a 501(c)3 then donations made to it are
deductable by the donor for federal income tax purposes.
Not for profits that are non 501(c)3 can included fraternitys, country
clubs, private schools, professional orgs , unions , etc. Income related
to their purpose for existance is not taxable to the corp.
Membership fees and dues paid by members are not deductable as a charitable
donation, but may be deductable for other reasons, such as a business expense.
An "S" is a for profit co, but qualifes with the IRS so that profits are
allocated directly to the owners and not taxed at the corporate level.
A Limited Liability Company is a variation of this.
Many not for profit orgs set up a 501(c)3 subsidiary to perform
charitalbe functions. Funds are provided by the org and also by outside
donors. Contributions to the foundation. are deductable by the donors for income
tax purposes. The NNA Foundation is an example of this.
My college fraternity, as do many others, has set for a 501(c)3
subsidiary foundation to provide scholarships for college students.
Contribution to the franternity are not tax dedutable, but donations
to the foundation are tax deductable.
Way oversimplified, and not intended as legal advice.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/21/06 12:17am
Msg #154093

Re: This answer is NOT NNA related , but I think that....

A 501(c)3 is required to "open" its books to anyone that inquires, isn't it? The charity that I have worked with for 10 years boasts the fact that ALL monies collected go to the charity and there are no paid employees and very limited expenses. I'd love to know how many paid employees the NNA charity has on staff.

People, before you contribute to a charitable organization, ask what percentage actually makes it to the people that need it. The Red Cross is a perfect example of too many chiefs.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/21/06 12:26am
Msg #154095

Actually Becca and Bob, there is an IRS publication, I

believe its Publication 78 that lists charitable organizations. I am not a tax professional and so I really don't know for sure. I know that that Section 501 has a number of subsections with entities with different requirements. I don't know the status of the NNA itself but I know that the Governor of Florida lists it as a non-profit on thier website and recommmend it as an education provider. I'd like to know more.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/21/06 12:39am
Msg #154100

The NNA and the NNA Foundation, are separate.....

but related entities.
The NNA is the org that we all know and
either love, hate , utilize or whatever is not a 501(c)3 org
but is a not-for profit. .
The NNA Foundation as per the link shown above by
svetsf and repeated here

http://www.nationalnotary.org/about/index.cfm?text=nnfMain

contributes money for tsunami, releif, hurrican relief,
medical research etc. These are charitable functions.
and it apparently qualfies as a 501)c)3
The main function of the NNA itself is educational and
services to its members. These are not charitable functions.
Becca, no , books of a charity are not open to the public. They
do have extensive IRS and state reporting reqmts , however.
Some of the state info, (as to the Foundation) may be
available , under a Freedom Of Information Act request.
I imagine that this would be in CA.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/21/06 12:57am
Msg #154102

Re: The NNA and the NNA Foundation, are separate.....

Well Bob, the charity that I work for will gladly "open" its books for anyone that cares to see and that is, in my opinion, what sets them apart from all others.

I remember seeing posts some time ago about the 501c3 status of the NNA and from what I remember, the not for profit side of the NNA fueled the for profit side. Bottom line, IMO, is that the NNA is nothing but a lobbyist group looking out for their best interests and not the best interest of the notary. Just ask Georgia notaries. Where was the NNA when GA became an Atty. only state? Who headed the whole GLBA/CBC hoopla seven, yes 7 years after the act became law? (and more importantly..why?)

I don't trust the NNA, I don't believe the NNA and I will not give the NNA or it's "charity" any of my money. When I give to charity I like to be sure that my donation will make it to the intended party and not into the pocket of some NNA charity manager. JMO, of course.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/21/06 1:17am
Msg #154105

OMG, I used the initials NNA several times on..

this thread and was not yelled at or acucsed of
being a devil worshiper by anyone
Thanks, guys, I am going to hit the hay while
I am still ahead of the game.
Got a busy signing day again tomorrow
Nighty Nite, all

Reply by John_NorCal on 10/21/06 10:28am
Msg #154168

Actually, I was not mixing apples and oranges,

I am fully aware of a for profit organization versus a non profit 501(c)3. I prepare returns for both of these types of entities. My point is that NNA has, in my opinion, shown a sinister, sneaky side to itself and I would hesitate to donate money to something that they control, operate or otherwise have a hand in.

Reply by Gary_CA on 10/21/06 12:30pm
Msg #154215

The problem isn't mixing fruit it's seperating...

the hor$e$hit from the gunsmoke...

and apparently that ain't so easy with the NNA.

If they're non profit I wonder how they pay the lawyers that are reading this post?

Give it up guys, no assets here... at least not in Gary's Posting Foundation, Inc.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/21/06 12:29am
Msg #154096

Re: John, it is a 501(c)3 and is fully controlled by NNA

A close friend of mine who runs a 501(c)3 nonprofit org suggested I check with "guidestar.org" regarding this issue after I told her a bit about what is going on. Guidestar.org is a huge data base of nonprofits (about 1.5 million...) There is a fee to access most of the data available there, but for n/c you can do a search to find out if the nonprofit is qualified by the IRS to receive tax deductible donations. I found the National Notary Foundation WAS listed as a tax deductible recipient, but the NNA was not. That's as far as I pursued it.

Reply by Harry [NR] on 10/21/06 1:04am
Msg #154104

Re: John, it is a 501(c)3 and is fully controlled by NNA

Setting up a public charity or private foundation is actually quite easy. We could organize a nonprofit corporation - let's call it the Notary Rotary Foundation - in a number of days and submit it to the IRS for 501(c)(3) tax treatment in about the same amount of time, though final approval would take considerably longer. We could use that foundation for all sorts of public good.

What we could not do, however, is convince the IRS that Notary Rotary, which is essentially an association or group of people having a common interest, should receive tax exemption under 501(c)(6), which covers business leagues or "associations." Publication 557 clearly states that we would not be able to "engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit..."

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p557/ch04.html#d0e7944

Because the sale of notary supplies, insurance, education, signing agent services, etc., is most definitely ordinarily carried on for profit, there is really no way we could be considered a "non-profit."

In fact, if we held ourselves out as a "non-profit" or did nothing to counter that mistaken assumption among state governments and others, one of my fears would be that it could be interpreted as part of a pattern of unfair competitive practices.

I suppose it's a good thing we make no bones about being a "for-profit" in existence with the fair treatment of our nation's notaries public at heart. Believe me, I would love to benefit from some of the things that true non-profits recognize, such as postage rates. (Mailings from genuine non-profits often bear non-profit indicia and postage in the $0.10-$0.15 range. Imagine the savings if you were sending out tens of thousands of pieces per month!)

Harry
Notary Rotary