Posted by jlissem on 10/22/06 8:24am
Msg #154313

Title companies break law

I wonder if THEY can pass NNA bgc?

http://www.alta.org/indynews/news.cfm?newsID=4267

Reply by hcampersFL on 10/22/06 8:42am
Msg #154314

That is very interesting to say the least. Tit for tat, it goes on everywhere and I doubt it will stop. It just shows you how much extra money they have at their disposal, they should pay us more!

Reply by DD/OR on 10/22/06 9:20am
Msg #154321

Thanks for posting that. I read in yesterday's paper that two local-based mortgage loan officers were indicted on federal charges that they used fraudulent employment information to qualify their customers for mortgage loans in order to earn commissions. They were charged with wire fraud. They used the girlfriend of one of them, who owned a store, to say that the borrower worked there. Amazing!! The FBI & Div of Finance & Corporate Securites investigated the case. I just wonder what kind of penalty they will receive.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/22/06 9:25am
Msg #154324

Re: Sadly DD/OR probably only a slap on the hand. n/m

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/22/06 9:24am
Msg #154323

Re: As Bev suggested this has gone on for years in all types



of business, it certainly goes on within a public school system, yes with your tax dollars. I live in a rather some community and the buying and selling of favors that go on here politically is unreal. It is never right but this kind of thing has gone on for years, lordy take a look at our government and the whole political arena......

Reply by jlissem on 10/22/06 9:39am
Msg #154326

Re: As Bev suggested this has gone on for years in all types

Well, they will pay you more, if you make sure the loan closes, Sorry it didn't close, we will only pay you nothing or a small travel fee. We like to hire certified CLOSERS.
So be a good little sales agent ( sorry signing agent) and close the deal.

Reply by LisaWI on 10/22/06 10:10am
Msg #154329

Please help me to understand......

why this is illegal. Companies wine and dine prospective customers/clients all the time. I am hungry for education on our industry and would love to be pointed in a direction where I can learn more.

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/22/06 10:13am
Msg #154330

Re: Please help me to understand......

Because this violates a State law.
"Washington state law limits the use of incentives and inducements to $25 per person per year. Investigators found that many of the companies exceeded those limits by thousands of dollars on a regular basis."

Reply by LisaWI on 10/22/06 10:18am
Msg #154333

Re: Please help me to understand......

So this is a state law that governs "all" business's, not just these particular business's? I thought maybe because they were Title Insurance Companies, they had to go by a certain set of rules and those were the ones they broke.

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/22/06 10:23am
Msg #154334

Re: Please help me to understand......

I expect it is a law regulating Real Estate Companies NOT all companies.
I don't know this for a fact it's just what I got from reading the article.

Reply by dickb/wi on 10/22/06 1:26pm
Msg #154356

Re: Please help me to understand......

title co's are prohibited from favors of any kind because [in simplified terms] it is considered a kick back and that is prohibited by respa...we used to be invited to bus and casino tours all the time by title co's, but alas no more........................

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/22/06 10:16am
Msg #154332

Re: intended to say small community instead of some n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/22/06 10:31am
Msg #154337

**Claiming title insurance companies have been landing business by illegally wining and dining real estate agents, bankers and lenders, Washington state officials are laying the groundwork for increased regulation of the industry.**

There's a law...maybe part of Respa, I don't know, but it is set up to level the playing field.

Many buyers/bwrs do not know that they have a CHOICE of which title co, banker, etc.

RE folks, back in the day, used to take you to your title co, and you lender. They did not give you a choice of who to go to. W/o the internet, buyers/borrowers were just glad to get nudged in the right direction. I remember being amazed at my first house purchase that I was not going to the home town bank for a loan but was sent to Milestone Mortgage immediately. I was young and said, OK!

Anyhow...without the wining and dining, it makes real estate people less interested in who the bwrs go to. Sometimes a few sporting event tickets tucked in the right pocket of a realtor can bring a borrower to a lender/title co they might not be getting the best deal from...but no one tells them this.



Before the internet, I think lots of us were experiencing the "mushroom" syndrome. Sitting in the dark and being fed you-know-what.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/22/06 10:32am
Msg #154338

and... I personally love the doc they sign at closing that states they have this right to choose....it's a joke.

Reply by PAW on 10/22/06 8:39pm
Msg #154369

Why do you consider the right to a choice, a joke?

The borrowers certainly do have the right to select any title company they wish, as well as any other third party vendor. I even submit that this extends to the borrower's right to select a Notary Signing Agent.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/22/06 9:05pm
Msg #154371

Re: Why do you consider the right to a choice, a joke?

Of course I know this Paul...the borrowers sometimes do not, until I hand them the piece of paper that says they do, that is what is a joke to me. They often times just snicker, as they weren't ever told by their LO.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/23/06 7:01am
Msg #154395

Re: Why do you consider the right to a choice, a joke? Paul

It *is* a *joke* that the people know they have had a choice. Refer to the mushroom syndrome remark I made. The less the borrower knows, the easier it goes.

Here is a case in point. My niece is going to refi her house. Her husband has an economics degree and he's a lad who squeezes the dollar until George Washington squirms.

He's currently shopping rates and loan costs. Call by call he's filling in a matrix to determine the best bang for his buck. He is doing all he can to make sure he gets the best deal b/c he knows what he's doing and how the game is played.

When they give him a bottom line he throws in the part about take $150 off the closing fee b/c our aunt is going to do the notary work for free they tell him, "Oh, we don't have any control over who the notary is."

Yeah, they do, of course, but the LO doesn't want to take $150 off of any area of the hud right off the top. Interesting, isn't it?

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/23/06 9:46am
Msg #154421

Re: Why do you consider the right to a choice, a joke? Paul

right Brenda, and thanks. I would have called back and told them to add you to the hud for that $150. The paper that says they have a right somehow gets left out of the discussions and they trust people are too naive to know. Works like a charm.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/23/06 4:32pm
Msg #154554

Re: Why do you consider the right to a choice, a joke? Paul

I have to agree - not that the right to a choice is a joke, but that most people don't know about it until it's too late. I'm almost embarrassed when I hand them the doc that advises them of their rights to choose, now that the work has already been done, the title co's name is already all over their docs, and you can be sure that if they decided to exercise their choice it would almost certainly mean duplicated efforts and increased fees. Maybe that doc should be included with the GFE - but as we know, they don't see that until the end much of the time anyway...

Reply by LisaWI on 10/22/06 10:39am
Msg #154339

Re: Title companies break law and

from what I can gather at the end of the article, the cost was somehow trickling down to the consumer.
Off to the World Wide Web, Im going to check out our own state laws on this issue.

Reply by jlissem on 10/22/06 10:45am
Msg #154341

Re: Title companies break law and

The end user ALWAYS winds up paying for any costs.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/22/06 10:59am
Msg #154343

Lisa

I am a former Realtor in WI and currently work part time in a Real Estate Office. Lenders and TC's often bring in food and gifts in the form of calendars and appointment books as thank you for your business gifts. The other day we got a big basket of assorted apples from a lender. I do notice that we see this more when things slow down. That because they have the time to do this then or it is a "remember me"gift. I see it more from Lenders than TC's as well. The winter holiday season is really interesting as that is when the business to business gifting gets going. I used to kept a fee schedule of all the TC's to show to the seller. They usually picked the ones that had the lowest fees.
By making it an office gift, they remain, as a rule, well within the guidelines. I think it is a RESPA rule.

Reply by LisaWI on 10/22/06 11:29am
Msg #154348

Re: Lisa

Very interesting. Im going to email you, I have some experiences I would like to share with you. And more info for the network.

Reply by NCLisa on 10/22/06 11:42am
Msg #154349

Choosing

In CA the TC was negotiated in the purchase contract. In NC, the buyer choses a closing attorney.

In CA, RE's usually have a favorite EO. We played musical TC's every couple years in CA, where 3/4 of the office of the Danville FATCO would move to CTC, and CTC would move to Commonwealth, and Commonwealth to FTC, etc. 99% of the RE's went with the EO no matter what perks the TC's were giving them. There are good EO's and some bad ones, and when an RE or LO/MB find one that does what they are supposed to and ontime, you they they mesh, they stay.

Reply by NCLisa on 10/22/06 11:25am
Msg #154346

All the years I worked for TC's, we always referred to the companies as having "deep pockets." I know how much they makek, and most of you would be shocked if you saw the montly P&L from just one FATCO or PTC office in say Contra Costa County, CA. I know that TC's are only supposed to spend the $25 per person per year to get business, but I do think that is a bit unreasonable. You can not take someone to a decent dinner for that. I think setting the limit at $200 to $300 a year is far more reasonable, and at that level, you still can't go crazy. We all know that to make money you need to spend money on marketing, etc. What I don't agree with are the weekend ski trips and beach trips that the TC's put together. That totally exceeds what should be done.

I sent a scheduler at my favorite TC a small fall bouqet of flowers last month as a thank you for all the orders. That cost me $30 and it was a SMALL bouqet. You don't really get a lot for your money these days.

I also find it kind of funny that the people making these laws have lobbyists paying for a whole lot of stuff that they shouldn't be.