Posted by TD_CA on 10/30/06 4:25pm
Msg #156260

What would you have done?

I got a call from a signing company out of Modesto, California to do a signing in San Francisco last Thursday, but the docs were here in my city. I agreed to do the signing for $200 (I figure the husband and I go to dinner while we're there). When I went to pick up the docs from the Title company, I found out that it was a combo loan. I was VERY FURIOUS, but I already committed. Of course, the fee was not what I expected for a combo loan - maybe a single loan. I immediately called the signing company and they told me that's why the fee was $200. I definitely will NOT be doing business with them again!!

Reply by pangborn on 10/30/06 5:37pm
Msg #156268

I would have handled it exactly the way you did--and would never have done work for them again unless EVERYTHING was spelled out, including piggybacks. You handled it as a professional.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 10/30/06 5:41pm
Msg #156273

Pangborn

Where are you located?

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/30/06 5:49pm
Msg #156278

You're assuming this is an intentional act

and it's not necessarily the case. The title agent and/or ss doesn't have much of a head's up on closings - let alone whether they're a single or a combo. Those 2nds or Helocs can be added by the lender in 20 min, start to finish, tops. Sometimes, yes, someone knows - but that doesn't always mean they knew WHEN they called to schedule it.

My definition of professional is someone who handles whatever ball is tossed to them in a respectable and empathetic manner, and who sees themself as part of the whole team effort. To cross them off the list because of this - well, you might be crossing a lot of business off your list.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 10/30/06 5:37pm
Msg #156269

IMHO...your error....not theirs. First thing I ask when I get a call, is "Is this a First, First and Second, First and HELOC or what?" THAT way, I'll know at the beginning what to quote them. Now, if THEY said, it is only a single loan and when you got the docs, it turned out to be a DOUBLE, THEN I would have been upset just like you and handled it the same way.
However, it seems that you did not ask that question and therefore, again IMHO you are stuck with what you quoted. I hope you at least had a nice dinner and enjoyed the drive.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/30/06 5:54pm
Msg #156281

Me too Doc

I wouldn't know what fee to quote without knowing what type of loan it is.
As a business owner, you bear the responsiblity of asking the appropriate
questions. I also ask which city the signing will take place in, any fax-back requirements,
split signing or split package, etc. so that I can present them with a fair fee for the
service I will be rendering. Communication is a key element in this business being successful.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 10/30/06 10:34pm
Msg #156333

I so disagree....... So then...if we apply that logic..

Any SS could call a notary and UNLESS the notary SPECIFICALLY asks (or leaves out the question...is that a "first/first and second/helo" it's on the notary to be responsible for some sort of lack of facts and just eat the fees since they didn't ask the question?

I don't think so. That, at best, is some sort of weird punishment ideology.

If the SS isn't up front with the details of the loan, it's all on THEM. Don't bother with the argument that "a good notary will ask the question". If some sleazy SS is relying on the lack of questions from a notary, just to take the work? Shame on the SS.

The notary deserves the fee for the work involved. That's it.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/30/06 11:21pm
Msg #156345

Re: I so agree with you, TG

This isn't 20 questions we're playing here. It's a business and it's on them to tell us EXACTLY what is required for this assignment. This should include faxbacks, a kazillion calls to/from us, trip fee policy, etc., etc. They don't. But they most definitely SHOULD because these things are a 'time involved' factor. Nasty surprises are... nasty.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/30/06 5:43pm
Msg #156275

Re: What would you have done? Just out of curiosity

Where is "your city"? If you live in South San Francisco and the signing was in Daly City it wasn't as bad a deal as if you lived in Concord and the Signing was in the Sunset District.

Reply by Tina_MA on 10/30/06 6:23pm
Msg #156285

Call the company that hired you and inform them that there were two loans, therefore, the fee needs to be adjusted accordingly.

Why would you go ahead and eat the fee from the 2nd loan? There is nothing unprofessional about calling the company that hired you and renegotiating when surprised by a 2nd loan (or any additional work, for that matter).

Most SS's have no idea there's a 2nd until you inform them. TC's sometimes don't find out until they're emailing the docs that there's a 2nd.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/06 6:52pm
Msg #156290

She DID call the ss...

If you all re-read the post, it sounds like they knew about it all along. But I have to go along with the rest who say it's our resonsibility to ask the right questions up front (not that I always remember everything myself...!) How far a distance was it to drive? I do have to say that if a signing service was offering $200 for one loan (and no doc printing), I would wonder what the catch was, unless it was quite a distance. I'm pretty sure I'd be ticked with that kind of response, too.

Having said that, my *initial* response wouldn't be with anger. I've run into that situation numerous times and I always assume that it was an honest mistake - or that they didn't know - and approach them from the perspective of letting them know so they can bill their client appropriately and adjust my fee accordingly. So far I've never had a problem with that. (In fact, if it doesn't mess up my schedule, I'm usually glad to see a double package surprise because it just means a higher fee.) I have no idea if this was a factor in your situation or not, but some people when confronted angrily off the bat, will dig in their heels and won't be reasonable just because they didn't like how they were confronted - especially if they feel it was unjustified. Just something to think about...

Reply by FAN_IL on 10/30/06 10:43pm
Msg #156335

Re: I would bill them

Truthfully you should've nailed them down from the get-go as to what was in the loan package.

Presumably you thought $200 (w/o e-docs) was a decent fee for a single refi because you were primarily being compensated for your drive time. They were obviously looking for you to be the courier for whatever reason from Modesto to San Francisco. Otherwise, they probably would've sent e-docs to a San Francisco notary.

To me, $200 is a decent fee for a double loan if it's in my immediate area. However, I wouldn't drive from Chicago to Milwaukee to sign a double loan for $200.

I would not have called them back and said, "this is not what I expected. . ." I would have called them back and said, "I accepted this fee on this basis. Since the terms have changed, I will need to adjust my fee accordingly. I will need to bill you and/or the title company XXX." It would have been clear that I wasn't planning to drive anywhere with those documents unless they adjusted the fee.

IMHO you are not obligated to take a loss on a job just because you agreed to do it under false pretenses. On the other hand, it is your responsibility to get clarification as to what the job is, especially so that you can renegotiate if it doesn't turn out to be what was initially presented.

The other day I was late to a double loan signing because the docs arrived late and the borrower left for the airport, expecting me then to meet her at the airport, so that she wouldn't miss her flight. I called the title co. back and let them know that I was now having to drive clear to the other side of town in rush hour traffic, and they increased my fee 50%. I was appropriately compensated. I do business with this co. all the time; they are one of my favorite clients.

On another occasion, a signing service sent me what was ostensibly a refi that turned out to be a much more complicated transaction with extensive printing. I told them I felt the printing was excessive relative to the original fee and I billed them accordingly. They sent me a check for what I billed.

So, here's what I would do. I would bill them $400, and differentiate between $200 for the double loan signing (which is a fair fee,) and $200 for the courier fee. I don't know what a courier service would have charged them for running a set of legal documents from Modesto to San Francisco, but it's probably a darn sight more than 200 bucks. (Or research it. See what a courier service would've charged, and bill that amount.)

If you bill them, they will probably pay you. You have nothing to lose, especially since you have no intention of continuing your business relationship with them.