Posted by NCLisa on 4/2/07 5:45pm
Msg #183407

Dress code emailed over from TC

Just got a required dress code sent over from a TC I do lots of business with. It says that women are required to wear dresses or skirts and pantyhose. Women are also required to wear "full" makeup. I almost fell on the floor laughing at this. Men were required wear suit or sport slacks, and a shirt with collar, a tie is not required. I don't understand why the men are not required to wear full makeup?

Reply by LC/AZ on 4/2/07 5:49pm
Msg #183408

Lisa, you crack me up! I can't stop laughing!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/2/07 5:51pm
Msg #183409

Re: Why not the pantyhose too?..:).. n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 4/3/07 10:12am
Msg #183520

Spencer's used to sell "mantyhose" n/m

Reply by christiSocal on 4/2/07 5:52pm
Msg #183410

Make AND dresses! Are they a throw back from the 50's? I don't wear make up anymore (doesn't help, I'm still old and fat!) and I never wear dresses either. Whats wrong with business slacks and blouses? I'm still far more dressed up than the typical borrower.

Reply by christiSocal on 4/2/07 5:56pm
Msg #183411

OK men, Lets see you with "full makeup" and panty hose

This should be good. hehehe

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/2/07 8:09pm
Msg #183439

Re: OK men, Lets see you with "full makeup" and panty hose

I do recall a thread a while back where Signing_Doc posted a pic of himself in a kilt - does that count?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 9:14pm
Msg #183452

And how about Joe Namath? Now, he looked Fabulous in

pantyhose...great legs...was it No Nonsense? In Playgirl Magazine? Jeez, what year was that? Or was it Ms.? What the heck were the other p.hose brands?

Lookin' for the Wayback Machine,
Susie

Reply by janCA on 4/2/07 11:25pm
Msg #183473

I'm thinking "cosmo" and it was in the '70s. n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 11:54pm
Msg #183481

Wouldn't you know it, here he is on YouToob:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23dBG27gnuU

But Beauty Mist Pantyhose??? Now I'm looking for the mag...

Reply by christiSocal on 4/2/07 11:56pm
Msg #183482

don't you love that hairstyle ;) n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/3/07 12:05am
Msg #183483

'Course I do, I'm old...<big grin> C'mon, he's so cute...

And almost completely dressed. Even his legs were covered up - the raging 70s...

Reply by NCLisa on 4/2/07 6:04pm
Msg #183412

I was hoping the men would go for the

full make up, pantyhose and spike heels like Tim Curry wore in Rocky Horror Picture Show!! Now that would make for an interesting closing!

Reply by LisaWI on 4/2/07 6:08pm
Msg #183413

Re: I was hoping the men would go for the

Is the "full" makeup mean both eyes with mascara, eyeshadow, ect, not just one eye?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/2/07 6:18pm
Msg #183415

Re: "..would make for an interesting closing!"...IF

The borrowers let them in the door!!!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 7:07pm
Msg #183418

Good Lord, I haven't worn makeup in I don't know how many years, and the last pair of pantyhose, one leg got used on a dryer as a lint catcher, and my late husband took the other one out to the shop mumbling something about it being perfect for a doohickie on the thingamabob.

Thanks for the laughs!

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 4/2/07 7:15pm
Msg #183419

I'll start abiding by that dress code when...

borrowers (especially those from European countries) start answering the door in more than their boxer shorts.
Seriously.
I had one guy (a Brit) sit me down at his glass-top dining room table while he and the misses sat in their underwear ... and I do mean lingerie.... signing docs, as though it was perfectly normal attire for a Saturday at noon. Mr. Borrower's attire (or lack thereof) poorly contained his 'bits & pieces'. It made for a very uncomfortable signing, to say the least.
And his wife? Oh, she very politely poured Earl Grey in her Victoria's Secret best.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 8:56pm
Msg #183447

eewwww, can I get an Amen! Mine was about 50,

had most of his teeth, *all* of his Hair, and let the whole flippin' droopy package flap around while he grabbed papers, signed them on his fleshy lap, and toss them back with a grin. Clearly, you have a classier brand of signers...they had a table!

Cheers for the brave of heart!
Susie

Reply by PL on 4/2/07 7:25pm
Msg #183421

Shorts and A shirts are out?

Dang and the Summer is coming too, bummer.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 4/2/07 8:00pm
Msg #183437

No Shorts...No Shirts...No Problem..(sign in nudist camp) n/m

Reply by Barbara J Moon on 4/2/07 8:24pm
Msg #183443

This really makes me feel old but,

I do wear full make-up and pantyhose everyday. I do a lot of in-house signings, reverse mortgages, etc. and this seems to work for me.
My first job (a gazillion years ago) was for Southern Bell Telephone Company and dresses had to be mid-calf, no slacks, and no bare arms. You had to be called Miss______ and you could not go to lunch or break with a member of the opposite sex that worked there. If you got pregnant, you had to quit by your sixth month. You had to be in your seat fifteen minutes before you were supposed to begin work. At least these title companies are not that bad.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 8:44pm
Msg #183446

You're not alone...we stuardesses had to keep our hair cut

to clear the collar of our uniform, and the Head Guy would snap our rears to make sure we were wearing girdles!

Life on the Oregon Coast is way too casual for pantyhose...even in court. Life is good.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by Barbara J Moon on 4/2/07 10:19pm
Msg #183460

Re: You're not alone...we stuardesses had to keep our hair cut

I forgot to add that for 26 years when we owned the garage and towing company, I wore jeans and Nikes every day, so this really is pretty much a pleasant switch for me. I would definitely draw the line at a girdle though!!!!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 10:25pm
Msg #183461

<Laughing> And p.hose, for me! I paid my p.hose dues... n/m

Reply by pan/nd on 4/2/07 9:00pm
Msg #183448

Drivel....double drivel...that's what is is!

They're so worried about appearance are they?

The main thing is getting the docs signed and notarized property.

Talk about penny wise and pound foolish.

The next thing they'll do is mandate I drive up in a Rolls or equivalent..just to keep up appearances.

This whole thing is a bunch of bull.

Reply by pan/nd on 4/2/07 9:07pm
Msg #183449

Typo tyme...

should read notarized properly

sorry about that

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 4/2/07 11:21pm
Msg #183471

Wonder what THEY'RE wearing in their office?

Gad, the most makeup I've ever worn to work in a professional office as a legal assistant meeting the public is eyeshadow and lipstick. If I were going out on a hot date, it was eyeshadow, mascara, eyeliner and lipstick. And perfume, of course.
And aren't we INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS????? These instructions are not only insulting but might be considered micro-managing by the IRS.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 11:44pm
Msg #183477

They can 'require' all they want; they are insulting, and

impose upon my personal style - and yours. If a Court in Lincoln County doesn't require "makeup and pantyhose," nobody else can. Unless, of course, they want to pay a 'dress-up' fee. Otherwise, I'm in the Oregon Coast Business Casual (heavy on the ~casual~) mode.

Cheers, in my Berkies,
Susie

Reply by christiSocal on 4/2/07 11:54pm
Msg #183480

It really is insulting and sexist for that matter

As well as just plain annoying! I'll go for the collared dress shirts (blouses)and dress pants (slacks) just like the guys. Thats fair. And in Cali thats often overdressed!

Reply by irish1 on 4/3/07 12:54am
Msg #183491

Re: It really is insulting and sexist for that matter

Many of you have taken offense with this, that's ok! In todays day and age, for the last 10 years, I have found "business people" lack in dress. I am not speaking about designer... I am speaking about "business".... It has been too lax in the last many years. Its about time someone dresses accordingly. It is a shame a s.s. has to state what is presentable... but unfortunately I have found this has to be addressed... and so be it that may. It response to the one who said "I am dressed better then the borrowners"... excuse me, YOU SHOULD BE...
they are the "client", you are suppose to be the professional rep!!

Everyone better wake up in the business world today....... all are to lax!! Yes... to the one who mentioned the 50's........ hey, take an example... dress wise... PROFESSIONAL!

Reply by DPazCA on 4/3/07 1:03am
Msg #183492

Re: It really is insulting and sexist for that matter

It is one thing to dress professionally, to me this is pretty much common sense. But, it is another thing to be told to wear makeup and a dress. How dare anyone tell a woman they must wear makeup and a dress. When they send the limo to my door to escort me to the signing, then I will wear makeup and a dress. How rude!

Reply by NCLisa on 4/3/07 5:11am
Msg #183496

Re: It really is insulting and sexist for that matter

I hope we never go back in time to that era. The business world is where it should be, business casual. I live near the research Triangle, and the computer guru's all go to work in jeans. You know what, if you are comfortable, you are better at your job, and you aren't spending money on clothing that you can only wear to the office (which is not tax deductable). Also, living in the south, you'd never catch me in pantyhose, 95 degree weather with 95% humidity, makes them intolerable, and it also makes the makeup pretty much run off your face. I no longer wear makeup for that reason, it looks horrible after you've spent too much time outside in a southern summer.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 4/3/07 9:22am
Msg #183507

A suggested reading is

John Malloy's "Dress for Success" and he has one for woman - "Women's Dress for Success". Even though this book was published over 25 years ago, the message is still the same. If we want to be treated as a professional we need to dress like one.

Have you ever seen a lawyer (man or woman) appear in court without having a suit on? Most large corps have a dress code and except for the full makeup is almost identical to the dress code the TC is requiring.

In this market of deminishing business anything we can do to help us stand out from the pack will work to our betterment. And those that are serious about this as a profession and a business will do whatever it takes to improve their business. Now the hobbyist on the other hand will continue marching to their own beat and not let ANYONE tell them how to dress, act, etc. because this is only EXTRA or PIN money to them and they can afford to be independent.

On this board about a year ago, one young man said that he thought it was alright to go to signings in jeans and tee shirt! One of the local notaries (who is always dressed to perfection and extremely professional in her dress and demeanor) had been referring closings to him that were too far away for her to do, IMMEDIATELY stopped referring signings because she felt if she referred him and he turned up dressed that way that it would be a reflection on her.

This is what the TC is trying to say, we ARE a reflection on the lender and the TC's and they want to insure that it is the right image that we project.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/3/07 11:59am
Msg #183527

Re: A suggested reading is

Dorothy, I'm serious about this business, and have been for over four years - it's all I do.

I understand your well-taken points - and fully agree this is not a tennies, jeans and T-shirt job. But there are alot of 'nice' things a woman can wear and look professional without resorting to dresses. And stockings in some parts of the country are just not practical.

I believe makeup is a personal choice, and whether a woman chooses to wear it has nothing to do with 'looking professional,' it has to do with her choice. Requiring 'full makeup,' which I'm assuming is eye shadow and mascara; some sort of liquid base, rouge or blush, powder... well, I simply won't do that. It's uncomfortable, and doesn't look well on me. Some women, OTOH, like makeup and look great.

When I walk out the door, I'm confident that I represent my clients in a professional manner, and that my attire is appropriate for my area. I might have a different look if I were in a metropolitan area, but not much more conservative than I present here.

Cheers,
Susie

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/4/07 4:09am
Msg #183630

Re: A suggested reading is

I pretty much agree with both of you, Dorothy and Susan. I, too, read Mr. Malloy's book probably 25 years ago. While some of the particulars may have changed, the concept is much the same. I agree that some of the tc request was a bit over the top. I NEVER wear dresses to work, mostly because I'm more comfortable in slacks, but I almost always wear a jacket or something that reflects that type of look. (And makeup and panty hose are a habit I got into many years ago, but that's me. I don't think they should be required.)

I have worked in an HR department and for some pretty large, conservative companies. This sounded like it was written by someone perhaps well-intentioned but very uninformed. It's probably the most poorly written dress code I've ever seen. HOWEVER, I do feel that how we dress is very important - I've even had some borrowers comment to me on how poorly dressed some other notaries have been. They, after all, are in their own home and should feel free to dress however they please (as long as they ARE dressed! Puhlease!!)

Reply by marlindog on 4/3/07 8:25am
Msg #183498

i cant remember the last time I saw a pair of panty hose! as

for the make I love to kiss red lipstick.

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/3/07 8:38am
Msg #183501

LOL...

I will wear pantyhose when I NEED support hose. I haven't worn them in years. Secondly, I do wear make-up which consists of a peachy blush (or rouge) if you're Ward Clever that obviously sent this e-mail out, lip gloss and eyeliner. I'll be damned if I'm going to wear pantyhose and dresses in the winter, unless someone can guarantee me that pantyhose would be a deterrent for ankle loving dogs
I am a dress lover but I also wear slacks, and a tank or blouse with a blazer or a sweater.
If someone told me I had to wear full make-up and dresses every day.....I'd have to duct tape my lips while I try to find this person and dust them off....(in my full apron, of course)
This is so 50's, it's actually funny.

Reply by janCA on 4/3/07 12:47pm
Msg #183538

Sad state of affairs to have to implement a dress code.

When a TC finds it necessary to send out e-mails to actually state they have implemented a dress code, there must be a reason for this. I'm not saying I agree with dresses and PH and makeup, that should be a personal choice, but they must be getting some sort of feedback from borrowers as to how their agents are dressing. I think I would be getting in touch with this TC and getting an explaination as to why. After all, if you want to keep them as a client, especially if they have been a good client, I would want to know just how flexible they may or may not be with the dress code.

Reply by DPazCA on 4/3/07 5:55pm
Msg #183578

Re: Sad state of affairs to have to implement a dress code.

I agree, there had to be a reason they stated this, if I worked for them, I would definitely call and find out.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/4/07 8:03am
Msg #183634

I gotta agree with Jan on this one...

Some of the instructions we receive are chilling, makes you wonder what the heck some of these SA's are doing because SOMETHING had to happen to bring this to writing a rule. I got one that specifically warned me about taking children to the signing, I'm sure they didn't just pull that one out of the air. Susan's though takes the cake, I can see in my mind some TC bigwig screaming ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, pulling on his/her hair and deciding they can't afford to lose a client due to someone's interpretation of "business dress". It's all about perception, think of all of those that have a difficult time making a determination on what their title is, closing agent, settlement agent, signing agent. Thinking about it from their point of view I can somewhat understand where they're coming from. The full makeup thing though? Nope, that's one I just can't get my arms around!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/4/07 10:48am
Msg #183654

SueW, I agree that the directive came from experiences

with inappropriate attire at signings. The "syles" these days - 'hip-hugger' pants, low cut tops, the 'babydoll' look, in my mind, are not only unbecoming on almost everyone, but give the younger women very poor choices. Another poster commented on the general lack of 'business' attire in the work-a-day world, and I would agree that in many areas, business attire has become more casual.

I am not advocating an 'anything goes' attitude here - only that a pants suit (do they still call them that?) or a skirt (a real skirt, not just 1/4 yard of fabric with some flouncy lace for a hem - or Ally McBeal's suit 'skirts,') and blouse and a jacket or sweater is as 'nice' or nicer than an outfit than a dress better suited for evening wear. Short skirts and bare mid-drifts are never business casual, IMO.

I don't understand why my post 'takes the cake.' I guess I should have been more clear.

Cheers,
Susie

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/4/07 10:59am
Msg #183659

Susan, you've misunderstood me

your post "takes the cake" because of the "command" for full make up. That one blows me away! I've been trying to imagine what the heck brought that on. A borrower didn't like an SA's make up or lack thereof? That one seems to me to be a personal choice that cannot be mandated by a TC. I'm on your side here cookie! Summer is fast approaching and I live in a humid zone, can't imagine showing up looking like a member of KISS in the heat of the afternoon! Go get 'em girl!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/4/07 1:09pm
Msg #183672

Oops! Sorry 'bout that...I thought "takes the cake" was a

bad thing...but now that you explain, ah! Cake! Cake is Good!

Just saw an ad for major dept store...bellies everywhere! Cleavage galore! Legs up to 'here!'

Jeez. I'm old.