Posted by TheBest/PA on 4/2/07 10:50pm
Msg #183464

Fine Line

I have been chastised for giving a borrower information about the loan docs. I was accused of practicing law. I gave the borrower very basic information about the some of the forms. I was not advising her of what to she should do about her loan. I handed her a form and told her the name of the form, such as "this is your right of recission, this is your til, your HUD, etc." I was not going into details about the forms just what it was just simple things. I also told her that she should read them over. How do some of you guys handle your closings? Am I crossing that fine line.

Reply by NCLisa on 4/2/07 11:12pm
Msg #183469

There are so many schools of thought on this subject. I've had attorneys say that if you do more than point it is UPL. I went to a title company CLE and they said the same thing. Then again you talk to another attorney and as long as you don't give legal advice it isn't UPL.

My personal opinion, I can tell them the name of the doc, point out the interest rate, loan amount, payment dates, bring their attention to prepayment penalties, or special features, etc. As long as I don't render a LEGAL opinion or tell them the legal ramifications it is not UPL.

Reply by pan/nd on 4/2/07 11:16pm
Msg #183470

Chastised...you say. Really!

By whom? UPL is it?

Come on, give me a break.

I'd have told that outfit that the borrowers couldn't read and I was just reciting what was on the docs. Makes about as much sense.

UPL indeed.

I had one SS tell me that a LO had complained to them that I was advising the borrowers what to do.

I just laughed. 7 years as a signing agent and 18 years as a real estate agent..what the

heck..I've been in the business long enough to know when to keep my mouth shut. And, I

laughed some more.

Somebody somewhere is off base..accusing you of UPL.

The whole thing is a bunch of baloney made up by German sausage makers.

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/2/07 11:23pm
Msg #183472

I agree with Lisa. But, a few times have found that when a borrower is unhappy about something and calls their LO for clarification, they tend to 'put words in our mouth'. I guess it's just human nature--they want answers but don't want to annoy their LO, so they say "the notary said (whatever)". I've even heard this little white lie (in their mind) from a B's mouth while I'm sitting there! It's just another version of the 'blame the notary' game.

Reply by Ndwa on 4/3/07 1:17am
Msg #183494

"Chastise", that's as much the description of a bully a$$ kisser SS who think they own you and your business.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 4/2/07 11:34pm
Msg #183475

If you stated facts only, you were OK

Interpreting the legal consequences of docs is not OK, as you know, but merely stating the facts of the forms is not UPL (IMHO). You are merely reading and pointing out certain parts of the docs - for example, this is your Note, here is the name of your lender, this is the address to send payments unless they tell you a different address, it says here that your interest rate is such-and-such, your payments begin on (date) and end on (date), you have a 15-day grace period to make payments. Whoever chastised you either doesn't have any idea what UPL is or is bent out of shape that you pointed out the facts of the loan so the borrower would be fully informed. From time to time, you run into L.O.s and lenders who would much prefer the borrowers do not discover the loan in front of them is not the loan they were promised.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/2/07 11:47pm
Msg #183478

Hear, Hear! Describing is not explaining. n/m

Reply by Larry/Ca on 4/2/07 11:49pm
Msg #183479

If you are consistent ....

in your approach to signings, and I suspect we all are, then you cannot win this game. While some of your clients expect you to "point and sign" others fully expect you to briefly explain the documents.

Reply by Leanna Kemp on 4/3/07 3:10am
Msg #183495

Re: If you are consistent ....

I so agree....each client is different. I was taught by NNA and practice like most of you....read what is front of them...PERIOD!!
I agree with the comments that someone is just being a jerk and I so agree with being CONSISTENT!!

Reply by DellaCa on 4/3/07 10:04am
Msg #183517

Re: If you are consistent ....

I had borrowers tell me the lo said I would know all about the docs and would explain everything, this was at the end and was said in conversation. I let her know he was wrong I could only do what I did for her,she said oh that is why you said a few times that we can call him.
Some of them don't have a clue as to what we do.

Reply by cara on 4/3/07 1:01pm
Msg #183539

The only time this has come up for me is when there was an error in the docs (a blank space for the broker's commission on 2nd loan in a piggy back) and BO refused to sign. I notified EO who said they would fax corrected doc and pay me for a trip fee to have corrected doc signed next day.

In the meantime, LO called to tell me that BO had complained that I was explaining the doc and this was not my job! I calmly told LO that I merely described the documents. LO also told me that is normal to have blanks in documents and I should have persuaded BO to sign a blank disclosure form (if only I were more experienced, educated, knowledgeable, etc.!) When I went back to get the corrected document signed, I asked BO if she had complained. She told me that she had not even talked to LO or EO!

It seems to me that this is a line that some aggressive LOs know they can take to try to intimidate NSAs. JMHO.