Posted by Lisa/IL on 4/6/07 7:58am
Msg #183937

No docs and backdating

I prefer to read what all of you - the seasoned pros - have to say rather than post my own because I learn a lot more, however ----- I haven't vented (much) before on this site, so here goes:
I was told I'd have docs last night by 4:30 p.m. for a closing at 5:30 that was an hour drive.
I stayed in touch with borrower and at 6:15 when I called the borrower to advise, the borrower said - can we just do this tomorrow? I told her she would need to contact her LO and I would call my contact and advise that borrower asked to reschedule to Friday.
I called my contact, no answer, left a message. I called LO, no answer, left a message. I called LO on cell, no answer, left a message. I emailed my contact, no reply.

I rec'd a call this a.m. wanting to no how closing went and apologizing he had missed my call (not callS) and said he didn't think it would be a problem, and I could just backdate the docs. I said - no, I don't backdate docs. His reply was - well, then you shoulda closed the loan last night. How wrong was I to say: Then I should have had the docs when promised and the borrower would not have wanted to reschedule. I tried to make contact with everyone involved in this loan doing my part in spite of not having docs and no contact person. He ended the conversation with they might just have to find another closer.
Thanks for letting me vent!

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 4/6/07 8:26am
Msg #183938

Simple Solution....

You need to set a "DROP DEAD" deadline for receiving docs. If your signing is at 4:30 and it's an hour away, set the time for 1:30.

I have to do this with even my best clients. At end of month, I don't have time to be sitting around waiting for docs. I tell the client what time the docs MUST be here. If they are not I cancel/postpone that appointment.

Reply by John_NorCal on 4/6/07 8:38am
Msg #183939

How wrong were you? Not in the least! Like Jersey Boy says, you should have a "drop dead" time for receiving docs. You shouldn't be cutting things so close that you would really be in a tail spin if something goes wrong. And that jerk who wants you to back date, should back date his common sense. Why wasn't he available to address the problem in the first place? Good for you for sticking to your guns! Good luck.

Reply by TRG_wy on 4/6/07 9:10am
Msg #183942

I agree - you were not wrong at all. And it is advisable to set a must have by time.

Back dating is the second law of notarizing. The first being that the signer has their feet planted in front of you.

The only other question I might have asked was "are the documents date sensitive" and can they be signed the next day; just change the RTC dates.

Reply by hcampersFL on 4/6/07 9:32am
Msg #183944

I agree with everything said already but would add one more thing.

During my first call to the BR I give a certain spiel. One of the things I explain is that I am not in control of sending the doc's. That sometimes things will take a little longer because of the lender or title company. I then ask my next question..."How flexible is your time?". This opens the door for them to tell me if they are on a tight schedule or if they have all the time in the world. If they tell me that they can't not accomadate a schedule change for any reason then I will be sure to let the hiring party know this information.

This takes place at the begining of the process so it can help to smooth things out before they become a problem.

Good luck!

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/6/07 10:39am
Msg #183954

I do exactly as Beverly does...tell my BO's up front that I have no control over the docs and how flexible are they, this way they know out of the box that the potential for a later appointment exists. I wouldn't mention rate lock or redraw BUT would mention docs are date sensitive and I have no options when it comes to setting an appointment time for another date. I most likely would have done all the things that you did, I DO get a Title person's cell number though for after hours so that I can speak to a human in case I run into problems. I agree totally with drop dead times, this needs to be discussed with the hiring entity at the time of the very first phone call so they know you have set your boundaries. Last and probably the best....it's great if you have an e-mail from someone requesting back dating, always brings a smile to my face. Good luck with this and let us know how it works out!

Reply by Joan_OH on 4/6/07 9:50am
Msg #183947

When the borrowers ask "can we do this tomorrow" I tell them 90% of the time, docs are date sensitive and that if put off until tomorrow, we probably will have to get new docs. After I explain that I am not an employee so have no access to this information, I ask them if their "rate lock" is expiring because that would prevent an easy redraw. They usually don't know either, but the suggestion usually gets them to forgo their Seinfeld reruns and confirm the appointment. If all else fails, I make THEM contact their loan officer to reschedule.

It seems to me, if you had the docs at 6:15 and did not have other appointments, you could have completed this closing. If there wasn't any other time that you could have done it but 5:30 and had to have the docs @ 4:30, then you should have cancelled with the title company @ 4:35 allowing them to reschedule with someone who could do a later appointment. If you are not flexible, you need to let them know.

So, unless the borrower had to go to work, told you NOT to come over, or you never did receive documents, I feel this situation could have been avoided. Of course, nothing excuses a LO asking you to backdate. But with a little flexibility and how you handle the borrowers, it might have been avoided.

Joan-OH

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 4/6/07 10:31am
Msg #183952

It almost sounds like the borrowers upset with the loan company before you even came into the picture. Usually the notary is the only human that they have seen in person and if they are upset, we get to absorb their dissatisfaction.

On busy days, I never schedule an appointment until I get the docs and I tell my customers this up front before they decide to hire me or not. If they do hire me, then I do make an initial contact with the borrower and explain that I don't have the documents yet and am not sure when they will come down, I will call them to set the time when I do get them. If it looks like an evening where I may not make it back to the office and this is a last minute signing, then I do give them a drop dead time for receiving the documents.

When the question is asked, "Can't we do this tomorrow?" I always reply that the docs are date sensitive and need to be done before midnight. I never try to call any loan officers as half the time they aren't available.

The bottom line is that the BO did not want to sign and you did your best to make contact. If the LO did not feel that it was important enough to be available for questions (What if the BO had a question at the table?), then it is on him. Also the fact that he even mentioned back dating calls his ethics into question.

Reply by ewing2surf on 4/6/07 10:58am
Msg #183956

Is it an unwritten rule that if you accept an assignment you have to do everything within your power to get it done that day. Remember there is usually no decision maker to fall back on after 6 pm . My experience. I have done many 10 to midnight signings because those darn 5 pm e-mail docs were so late that I had to finish my other signings, go back to my office at 9 to 10 pm, print the docs and drive out to wherever to beat the clock. The signers excuse "can we just do this in the morning" has to be addressed seriously.

Reply by Lisa/IL on 4/7/07 7:33am
Msg #184067

Rec'd docs. Closed loan. Perfectly pleasant borrowers. L/O apologized.
Happy Easter!!!!!