Posted by Donna_CA on 4/13/07 8:28pm
Msg #185119

RTC Date Change - Who Should Initial

If the RTC date needs to be changed, is there a "standard" procedure as to who should line thru, change and initial, the borrower or notary? Or, does it depend on lender?

I had my first one in years returned today when I was told that even though it wasn't specifically stated in the instructions, they will only accept the borrower's initials?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/13/07 8:41pm
Msg #185122

Always a good idea to call for direction: email's written

documentation of specific instructions. I dare say, there's no universal answer.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by Donna_CA on 4/13/07 8:49pm
Msg #185126

Susan: I Agree And I Read Instructions - All 7 pages

After reading 7 pages of instructions, there was NOTHING that addressed that issue but now the SS is telling me it's standard procedure to ALWAYS have the borrower initial and saying I made the error. She even told me it was in the instructions but after reading it, she couldn't find it either.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 4/13/07 8:59pm
Msg #185131

PS

Usually the instructions are on the "Warning Regarding Notice of RTC" form, if one is included in the package. If you would like to email me or pm me with your email address, I will send you a copy of this notice so that you can reference it.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 4/13/07 8:43pm
Msg #185123

I line through it and change the date. The BORROWER should initial any and all changes to the document.
My .02, for what it's worth. I've never had a problem doing it that way.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/14/07 7:23am
Msg #185182

I used to have the borrower make the date change themselves, and then initial. But it's unbelievable how the borrower can screw up writing the new date in the correct area of the doc! Now I make the date change myself, but I always have the borrowers initial the change.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/13/07 8:44pm
Msg #185124

The borrowers!

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/14/07 7:52am
Msg #185185

Re: RTC Date Change - Who Should Initial - whew.

I am late getting here on Sylvia's and Lisa's posts. Just read them. I was beginning to think after reading Donna's, Susan's and Dennis's posts that I had lost my marbles.

The borrowers are the the parties who the change affects. The "universal" answer in my world without explicit (and might I add bizarre?) instructions otherwise is "the borrowers."

Disclaimer: Welcome to my world. Enter at your own risk, and all that jazz.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 4/13/07 8:49pm
Msg #185125

Donna J

Joe_CA here. Have the borrower initial the date change. If the borrower signs the RTC line by mistake start over with a fresh copy.

Reply by Donna_CA on 4/13/07 8:57pm
Msg #185130

Thanks all. I'll have the borrower sign from now on

I have to say I've initialed in about 90 percent of the time in the last 5 years unless instructed to have borrower initial but to avoid any future problems, I'll have the borrower always initial.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/13/07 9:08pm
Msg #185133

I dared and lost. Although if not stated in the

instructions, shame on them for that omission!

IMHO, a deal-breaker should be disclosed/addressed specifically in the instructions.

Experience teaches that every change needs the initials of the parties agreeing to the contract. Since I'm not agreeing to the contract, I can't initial a change in the contract (RTC). I, as a notary, do initial changes say, in venue, which is a portion of the notorial block, and which pertains to my duties.

That said, calling for direction in writing doesn't hurt, in this quest for knowledge and experience.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/13/07 9:12pm
Msg #185137

Donna, Have you ever initialed the RTC change of date and it been okay?

It would never occur to me that I would be the one to initial an RTC date change. I have zero to do with the loan except carrying the paper around.

Reply by Ndwa on 4/13/07 9:26pm
Msg #185140

Re: RTC Date Change - Brenda

Don't you think it's a good time to line up those "cookies" as one instruction does not fit all.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/13/07 9:37pm
Msg #185145

Re: RTC Date Change - Brenda - yes Andy...cookies

are important. Don't forget the milk.

Reply by Donna_CA on 4/13/07 9:40pm
Msg #185146

Brenda

Yes, and without incident until now. In fact I have been told before that the Notary should be the one who initials because they are only confirming the date change and that by signing, the borrower is agreeing to that change.

I have also been told just the opposite and to have the borrower not only initial the change but to write the date the notary tells them as well which is why I put the question to the group and what I plan to do from now on. Thanks again.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/13/07 9:46pm
Msg #185150

Donna...interesting. I have never heard of that.

It was always just my understanding that if the date is either handwritten in or changed it would be the borrowers who would initial it.

In the experience I have in mortgage lending, in title and as a legal ass. (Oops did I say that? I meant "asst." there has never been a place where anyone other than the signers of a document initialed the changes to it. None, notta, zero.

Notary not even notarizing a document and they want you to initial to confirm the change? Mighty interesting concept that.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 4/13/07 9:53pm
Msg #185154

Re: Donna...interesting. I have never heard of that.

I do a lot of benificial loans and they have a new policy that all parties involved in the transaction ie borrower(s) plus notary have to initial and date the correction.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/13/07 9:59pm
Msg #185156

Same here, hence, no universal rule. n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/14/07 9:21am
Msg #185193

Donna & Dennis, I have questions, this is baffling

I tend to pick things apart into minute detail - makes me an informed consumer, but perhaps not always the most popular girl on the block. =) I have a couple questions ...

Donna - when you said you'd been "told before" that the Notary should initial RTC changes, I'm wondering, who told you? It just doesn't make any kind of sense from a legal or practical standpoint, since it presents a document with revisions on it that are initialled by a person who is not IDENTIFIED on the document. I'm more apt to suspect you were told this by someone who didn't know what was what, no matter who they were or where they worked.

Dennis - on the Beneficials, you said the instructions are for the notary to initial revisions to the RTC, and you included the words "all parties to the transaction". Who is including you, the notary, as a "party to the transaction" - just curious if this is your assumption, or does the instructions actually use "notary included" or something as specific. Again - it just doesn't make sense to me, and I'm trying to get these details nailed down here.

Also, Donna - I'm left wondering if, when you've done this in the past, it slid by simply because your initialing either isn't all that legible or someone wasn't all that eagle-eyed, was just making sure they 'saw' initials, and didn't make sure they were the right ones.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/14/07 9:51am
Msg #185195

Re: Donna & Dennis--Happy dancing here, Renee'

You read my mind.

I never heard of such a thing--it makes no sense for the notary to initial the RTC. I was hoping you'd put your .02 in on this one.

I am also interested in know "who" would direct a notary to initial the RTC.

Reply by sue_pa on 4/14/07 9:58am
Msg #185196

Re: Donna & Dennis--Happy dancing here, Renee'

Unfortunately Dennis isn't the only person out there that has been instructed this. Mine was a HFC loan that closed in the home. The written instructions said that I also had to initial the RTC dates. Me, being me, ignored that request. I received the RTC back a few days later wtih further instructions that I was to initial. I called IREP and told them in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't do it. I can't tell you how many phone calls and e-mails I received telling me that this was standard procedure, I HAD to do it, etc. Never knew what happened because I sent it back with a note attached basically saying what everyone here has said - I'm not a party to this document and I'm not initialing anything. I realize it probably wouldn't have 'hurt' anything, but I also knew without a doubt that it wasn't necessary and I am a firm believer in this business that less is better. We all see finger pointing and blaming every day of the week and being the bottom of the chain we are usually the ones losing out.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 4/14/07 11:09am
Msg #185205

Re: Donna & Dennis--Happy dancing here, Renee'

This Benificial requirement is directed to corrections of dates only on any of their docs, regardles (sp) OT (everyone is so anal with regards to spelling on this board). Harry sould add spell check! JMHO Each borrower and the notary are required to initial and date the correction. If the borrower messes up a signature they just resign the doc, no mark tru or initials...Please reply with reasons/liability issues with tfollowing his practice.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 4/14/07 12:05pm
Msg #185217

Not to Be Anal...

...but I have a suggestion for you regarding spelling. Do you have MS Word or similar software available to you on your computer? All you need to do to run a "spell check" here on the board is to: type out your NotRot message; copy the words from the NotRot message by dragging your cursor across the words & right clicking; paste the copied message into a new MS Word document; then run spell check within MS Word. After correcting any & all mistakes in MS Word you reverse the process back to the NotRot message you originally created. It's a little more work, but allows you to avoid the spelling police!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/14/07 5:08pm
Msg #185251

Re: Not to Be Anal...

Or download iespell - and spellcheck right in the message box

iespell.com

Reply by Barb/MO on 4/14/07 5:55pm
Msg #185254

Or www.tinyspell.com n/m

Reply by Dennis_IN on 4/14/07 8:38pm
Msg #185270

Re: Not to Be Anal...

Sylvia,
Thanks for the iespell.com link. I do feel it is important to post using the correct spelling but when you try to type fast my fat fingers sometimes hit the wrong key. This iespell is great.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 4/14/07 8:39pm
Msg #185271

Re: Not to Be Anal...

Sorry Dennis, ispell wins hands down over your method of spell check.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 4/15/07 1:56pm
Msg #185316

Ya Learn Somethin'...

...new every single day!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 4/14/07 11:50am
Msg #185214

I'm With You, Sue!

Along those same lines, two years ago I parted company with HFC/Beneficial due to the fact they wouldn't allow me to alter MY Notary certificate to delete the capacity of husband & wife they inserted in the DOT Notary block. They emphatically told me I couldn't change a thing & I replied: "Yes, I can...I can walk out of here...that'll change things". They wouldn't budge & I left without performing the signing. Needless to say I haven't done any more work with IREP as a result, but that's fine with me. I never felt comfortable working with HFC/Beneficial anyway.

Reply by sue_pa on 4/14/07 12:10pm
Msg #185219

Re: I'm With You, Sue!

several years ago I was 'suspended'. My crime? I also altered the notary block - I crossed out 'personally known'. I had notarized this way (all documents I've ever notarized, not just loan documents) for several decades and continue to do so to this day. I gave them 'proof' from my SOS office and also from our state notary association that I wasn't wrong. Apparently every loan I ever closed for them was 'investigated'. I still do a little work for them but not much. I understand this company was in a lot of trouble several years ago and so I understand their being so very careful; however, they are the one of the sloppiest companies I have ever met concerning 'acceptable' ID. The prior manager at the branch I closed for could have cared less that id was expired - you know the borrower who says "I've been busy for the past 5 years and getting this updated isn't my priority." Well guess what, notarizing that loan with a check book and electric bill also wasn't my 'priority'. I understand that manager is no longer employed by that company.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/14/07 12:47pm
Msg #185222

Re: I'm With You, Sue!

Well...I am in good company then. They seldom call me because I tend to drag those in house appointments out to as much as 35 minutes and I also have a scribbledy signature. I am left handed and my handwriting is very legible but it's not pretty or uniform. If I try really hard it can look like a fifth grader.

I never felt good about their appointments because they wanted them shoved down the people's throat without allowing them the opportunity to ask questions. Sign, sign, sign. That's hard when a man has had a stroke and cannot sign fast...or when a person has diabetes and thinks they need a lot of liquids during the appointment...or when Lucy Looselips wants to talk while she lays a straight edge down each time her husband signs the documents. I am sorry, but 50% of the clients I encountered of theirs were special situations which required a lot of time.

I reported this to IREP after they were in a bind and IREP called me out of the blue and wanted me on a Friday afternoon at 4 pm. I told them that I knew I was last choice because of that situation and no, I was not putting on pantihose for a last minute dead of summer heat signing because I knew they didn't like my 35 minute signings. God forbid there be a special person who had a handicap--they wanted the notary in and out in less than 20.

IREP cajoled and humored me and said my record was perfect oh please go do it, but I just had had it with the Beneficial office in this town. Yes, IREP has called since then, but it's all about the branch manager's personality and not working with mine.

I know a couple of great folks here who do well with Beneficial's in house signings but I never felt I lost much. I literally hated those appointments after I realized what the score was with the guy over that particular branch.

Reply by christiSocal on 4/14/07 1:29pm
Msg #185225

Hey Brenda, Lefties rule!

I knew there was something I liked about you!!! LOL. My writing is also legible (but NOT pretty) Never have worked for these folks and now don't plan too...

Reply by Signing_Doc on 4/14/07 2:14pm
Msg #185228

Re: Hey Brenda, Lefties rule!

As a fellow leftie...don't forget that we are the only people in our "Right" mind!

Left On Sister!

"Doc"

Reply by Lisa/VA on 4/14/07 2:42pm
Msg #185229

Re: Hey Brenda, Lefties rule!

I much prefer the saying: "everyone is born right-handed. only the greatest overcome it."

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/14/07 2:51pm
Msg #185230

Re: Hey Brenda, Lefties rule!

Sigh...Beneficial docuuments need to be picture perfect or they don't care much about having you do their work. Perfect writing is preferred. I shoulda been a doctor mine is so bad.

Lefties are unique, aren't they? I shoot right handed, I throw a softball right handed but I can bat either way. Shooting pool is either handed as well. What little bit I have played golf is also either.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 4/14/07 3:13pm
Msg #185234

According to the Inimitable Yogi Berra...

...that means your "amphibious"!

Reply by Signing_Doc on 4/14/07 3:24pm
Msg #185238

Re: Hey Brenda, Only thing I do rt handed is aim & shoot! n/m