Posted by Ernest__CT on 4/6/07 7:13am
Msg #183928

Two witnesses required; Notary can be one.

I am nearly at my wit's end. Many borrowers get angry with me when I tell them that it is their responsibility to provide a witness. In the cases of last-minute signings, several borrowers have lambasted me for not giving them at least 24 hours' notice that they need to come up with a witness.

I explain, patiently, that it is not my rule, but it is Connecticut law that requires two witnesses. I've heard every excuse in the book: "I'm out in the country, there's no neighbors"; "Everybody works at that time"; "I don't know anybody 'cause we've just moved here"; "I don't want my neighbors knowing my business"; "Can't my [spouse] witness for me and I witness for [my spouse]?"; "The time is too late for me to ask anybody to come over"; "It's too short notice for me to find anybody now".

Why, when asked by the borrower what is needed, does the person scheduling the appointment say the equivalent of "Just your driver's license"? Does the person scheduling the appoinment really not know what the witness requirements are?

Have you sent notes back with the signed documents requesting that borrowers in your state be explicitly told that they will need to arrange for (a) witness(es)? If so, has that strategy been successful? Do you have an opinion about trying the my-state-requires-n-witnesses-I-can-be-one-of-them note?

Thanks in advance, as always!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 4/6/07 7:20am
Msg #183931

It has always been a hassle for me, too.
The only time (and not every time) I have NOT had difficluty is when the LO and/or TC has previously reinforced that request. When they have not, I charge a premium to provide a
paid witness.

Reply by JanetLA on 4/6/07 7:24am
Msg #183932

Two witnesses required; Notary CANNOT be one in Louisiana.

I agree! The same problem so often here, and we need two witnesses in Louisiana and the notary can never be one of them. The borrowers always respond with "Nobody told me that." or something similar. Many times, the mortgage company does not even know the witness requirements here and will call me, almost with a challenge. In any event, good point. I have the same issue. Have a great weekend

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/6/07 7:42am
Msg #183935

Arkansas is not a witness state, but, as we all know, a certain Lender requires 2 witnesses--notary can NOT be one of 'em. Always a hassle because said Lender/LO never ever tells them this little detail. But, I have convinced quite a few to meet me at Hardee's--where I am getting really good at convincing 2 total strangers to 'witness this document for those nice people over there'... and I'm sure nobody has a clue what just happened, but I tell my witnesses 'remember this day and those people'. Usual reply is: "we'll never forget it", accompanied by a lot of eye-rolling.

Reply by NCLisa on 4/6/07 7:54am
Msg #183936

NC is not a witness state, but SC is, and many people here own vacation property in SC. Besides needing 2 witnesses for SC closings, you are required to get an attorney on the phone. The TC's at least tell me it is a SC property, so I tell the borrowers that if they can't have a witness available, they will need to meet me at the closest Starbucks. The closing then usually takes place at a Starbucks.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 4/6/07 9:22am
Msg #183943

I can empatize with the problem. The TC or LO never inform the borrower as to the state's witness requirements. In fact there was one TC that completely misinformed the borrower about the number of witnesses two weeks ago. Fortunately we were able to scare one up at the last minute, and save the closing. This is a particular problem on last minute requests. It is amazing that no one but the signing agent ever seems to take the time to explain to the borrower that they need to have proper ID and witnesses. In those instances in which I am requested to provide a witness...the witness usually charges $50.00 to appear at the closing.

Reply by ewing2surf on 4/6/07 10:35am
Msg #183953

Most California Notaries are inexperienced in the use of witnesses. These individuals are not "credible witnesses" unles the signer dosen't have an ID.

Here are a few tips. If you are required to have witnesses sign don't forget to remind them to print their names under their signatures. You do not notarize the witness signature (the exception is the attorney prepared Will) so you do not ID them nor do they sign your journal.

Reply by MelissaCT on 4/9/07 10:15am
Msg #184262

Library is a good alternative

Ernest,

I have this problem all the time. "Didn't need a witness last time" is a common chorus. I tell them to look closely when they receive their release of lien after payoff -- there is a witness listed there that didn't witness the signatures! There is one (in CT that I know of) that routinely "has her husband witness at home" after the signing. I've heard this from several borrowers lately. Sorry, but I don't operate that way. Yes, it's a pain, but I believe the intent of the law isn't just to have an extra signature on every deed. I'm not an attorney, so this is my layman's interpretation of the law's intent.

I diverse. I've found that burger joints are not a great place to find a witness, but the local library is usually very accomodating. Never back down from the witness requirement. It's amazing how many people that "don't know anyone" will miraculously find a witness somehow.