Posted by kate_nortca on 8/22/07 1:01pm
Msg #207002

Can I borrow a witness

I'm curious how other notaries handle a situation like the one I had this morning. A couple (two older people) walked into my office asking me to notarize a Power of Attorney for them. No problem. First thing they said was 'we need two witnesses. Do you have some?" I politely said no, that is your responsibility. They were stunned! They suggested I walk down the hall of offices in my building and try to recruit someone. I said if you would like to do that be my guest. Again they were shocked! Why wasn't I getting witnesses for them? My husband arrived at the office during this exchange and very nicely volunteered to not only witness but grabbed someone from the office next door.

So here's my question: clearly this is not my responsibility to get people for them. What do you do in this situation? And furthermore do you ever charge an additional fee for finding a witness? I felt pretty guilty having my fellow business people disturbed for something like this and then just saying, 'oh thanks. bye'. When someone makes an appt with me for a Power of Attorney I let them know about the witness requirement. But for a walk in I of course have no information beforehand.

Thank you.

Kate

Reply by Simple Solutions Notary Service - JoAnn Baracosa on 8/22/07 1:22pm
Msg #207012

Re: Can I borrow a witness/

with out ID: You personally need to know them.

With ID: Yes are able to witness they are who they are with valid ID.

Reply by Templin on 8/22/07 1:42pm
Msg #207017

Re: Can I borrow a witness/

I didn't think the Notary could be a witness on a POA?

Reply by janCA on 8/22/07 1:42pm
Msg #207018

Re: Can I borrow a witness/

Unless a witness is actually an ID (CW) they are only there to witness the principal signing the document. They do not have to have an ID. Plus, in California, I don't believe you need witnesses for a POA. It just has to be notarized. I've never actually notarized a signature for an original POA so I may be wrong on this but I don't remember seeing in the CA Handbook that you have to have witnesses. I will research though to make sure.

Reply by janCA on 8/22/07 1:48pm
Msg #207020

Re: Can I borrow a witness/

For a Durable Power of Attorney you do have to have two witnesses and they do have to have ID. On a property POA you do not need witnesses. My reference is mine and my husband's trust which was set up in 1999. Laws may have changed since then.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/22/07 4:33pm
Msg #207059

Re: Can I borrow a witness/

I notarize living trusts very often with an attorney. We both sign as witnesses.

Reply by Mike Photon on 8/22/07 1:47pm
Msg #207019

What?
Why would you have to know the witness? Are you also notarizing the witnesses' signatures?
As long as you are notarizing the primary's signature only and he/she has proper id, I assume you don't have to care if the witness is Tom, Dick or Harry.
In most POAs you will need two witnesses OR it should be notarized. May be in some cases some require both, but that doesn't mean you have to notarize the witnesses' signatures as well.
Please correct me as I may be wrong.

Reply by kate_nortca on 8/22/07 2:29pm
Msg #207026

Thank you everyone for your feedback. As far as I know POA's require two witnesses. But that was not my question.

My question was, has anyone had experiences with the signers on the Power of Attorney expecting you the notary to provide a witness for them? And if you do, have you ever charged for that service.

I did understand what my requirements were for doing the notarization itself. Furthermore I knew the witnesses in this case and no I would not notarize their signatures Mike. Why would I?

Kate

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/22/07 2:40pm
Msg #207028

Not your responsibility to provide witnesses

Reply by HARRY_PA on 8/22/07 2:58pm
Msg #207031

Kate:

In PA we can"t charge for locating a witness, only notary fees and clerical fees. My feeling is the same as yours, it's up to the principal. In my retail location, sometimes another customer comes in or sometimes they grab someone off the street. Hope this is what you were looking for,

Harry

Reply by sue_pa on 8/22/07 3:02pm
Msg #207032

Of course we can. The witness falls under 'clerical' - the same as if you charge them to make a photocopy or submit their paperwork to PennDOT. Everyone over here charges $1.00 for the witness - the notary sitting beside the one notarizing. They itemize the receipt as $5.00 ack (or whatever for notarization) on one line and $1.00 witness on the next line.

Reply by kate_nortca on 8/22/07 3:42pm
Msg #207043

Thank you everyone. Yes those latter responses did answer my question although all are appreciated.

I think I am going to adopt a new policy for walk-ins simply that if they do not have witnesses of their own they must find some or make an appt for another time when they are more prepared. And add this to my posted hours and information. I am very uncomfortable with having the people who share my office building disturbed for the execution of paperwork they know nothing about.

Thanks again.

Kate

Reply by Chakwaina on 9/12/07 6:14pm
Msg #210635

Sometimes the idea is that the witnesses know nothing about the paperwork--that they are only witnessing the signature being done.

Check with a lawyer in your local about that.

That is how it is here in TN and that is why we just grabbed people from the street or other biz next door.

Reply by Chakwaina on 9/12/07 6:10pm
Msg #210634

I worked in a lawyers office and we needed witnesses for POA, DPOA, Wills, certain types of Deeds, etc. We just went next door to the next biz or two and got them.

In many instances it is preferable that the witness NOT be personally acquainted with the signer (DPOA, Will).

Of course this was a small town and we all did this sort of thing--say the tax preparer had some IRS form they needed notarized--they jumped over and we stopped and notarized it for them--they come witness something next week.

When I hired and attorney--big name, big town--they did the same thing.