Posted by Dinah Chambers on 8/1/07 11:30am
Msg #203202

Copies of Executed Documents

I had a signing a couple of days ago. Like the usual practice, double check or even triple check the loan documents prior to shipping. In this situation, the docs were sent back to the signing agency, who again rechecked the docs prior to sending it to the title company. Lord and behold, we get an email from the title company who claims that the first 11 pgs of the DOT were not initialed. Now, the 12th page was signed by the borrowers and the 13th page was notarized with the borrowers initials on it. I can remember the borrowers initilizing a whole lot of pages, including the DOT. Do we need to start making copies of the executed documents for our file and shred them when we get paid? Let me know your thoughts.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 11:33am
Msg #203203

Were there initial lines on the first 11 pages?

Reply by Tameka Williams on 8/1/07 12:23pm
Msg #203219

Just as a word of caution I was taught to make a copy of any and all documents you are signing off on for your own personal records in the event something happens and you need to refer to a particular document. Not to say that everyone is not trust worthy, however, if anything changes once it leaves you hands you have proof of what you did.
As always remember to keep all files confidentially.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 12:38pm
Msg #203222

Who taught you to make a copy of every document package? That is too costly in terms of time and printing. Your place must be busting out with paper and files.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 8/1/07 12:47pm
Msg #203225

Uh, it's called "scanning", Johnny. No paper, no toner

Saved as a .pdf file on your password protected computer, it can often save your arse when asked to do a re-sign "due to Notary error". Not all docs, mind you, but docs pertinent to funding and all Notarized docs.
Also, once the RTC date has passed, "shred" the .pdf file.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 12:54pm
Msg #203230

Re: Uh, it's called "scanning", Johnny. No paper, no toner

she didn't mention scanning, plus scanning still takes time and I am sure gets old after a while

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 12:56pm
Msg #203232

Re: Uh, Lisa, she did say copying and shredding, nothing

about scanning

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 8/1/07 6:32pm
Msg #203290

Um, when you scan, you copy. When you delete, you shred.

Pretty simple, really. And scanning an entire CW/FSL package takes about 5 minutes. It's not terribly difficult... load, press button, make a cuppa joe, and it's done.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 3:48pm
Msg #203262

Re: just curious, how many scan their document packages to

save their butt

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/1/07 12:47pm
Msg #203226

Re: Copies of Executed Documents - La is different.

**Who taught you to make a copy of every document package? That is too costly in terms of time and printing. Your place must be busting out with paper and files.**

Notaries have more responsibility in their transactions, as I understand it. One size doesn't fit all. A La. notary is more educated as to the legal part of the process. It's very understandable why this La. notary makes note of this.

However, for Texas that wouldn't be something I'd need to do...or want to.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/1/07 12:51pm
Msg #203229

**Let me know your thoughts.**

My thoughts are to teach yourself to do it perfectly every time and you'll almost be certain to have the package done properly. I don't keep copies of anything. I just do my routine and feel confident it is done correctly every time when I ship the docs back.

Make them fax or email you copies of your "blunder" and then you can determine if it really happened or if they lost the document.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 8/1/07 12:57pm
Msg #203233

Since the DOT pages preceding the signature page could easily be reprinted, I don't see how this is going to end in anything but a "he said, she said" situation. If the notary is sure they were initialed and the title company somehow lost them and is scrambling, how is she going to prove it?

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 1:02pm
Msg #203234

She has the signing company on her side, it went through two levels of approval, the experienced notary and signing company. That is enough to justify her case that the borrowers initialed those documents and the title company lost the pages.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 8/1/07 1:06pm
Msg #203235

Believe me, I'm not arguing for making copies of documents. I'm with Brenda on that. However, I see this as a no-win situation, if the title company is going to stick to their story. Win the battle, lose the war, maybe.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/1/07 1:07pm
Msg #203236

OK...so I go into overkill. In my journal, I put a little 'i' next to the doc which translates to me as "all pages required & were initialed". Will it actually solve anything? No, but, at least I'd know they're lying to me. Have never had to use it, but~~ CYA

Reply by natogan on 8/1/07 1:57pm
Msg #203242

I agree with you, Lee. I do the same as you, I put additional information how many pages DOT were initialed and if the last page which I attached ( loose cerificate), I make a comment that it is initualed. The reason I do this because sometimes people loose pages. When it happen I, of course, help them out with no additional charge. However, I let them know that the notarization was done properly and I have an indication of it. Once one LO called and asked me to do the last page of DOT, because there is no Initials. I told her if she needs help I will do it, and send her a copy (likely I had a copy for SA back fax)of the last page. Don't try to trick me if you lost this page, just ask for help.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/1/07 2:25pm
Msg #203249

"Don't try to trick me if you lost this page, just ask for

help."

That was my thought all along. You had to send to SS first? Then they looked at it, touched it, then mailroom, TC, etc. Too many variables, too manty hands. Just do your job, check it, feel confident you have done what and how you were supposed to do and let it go. Nobody wants to take responsibility for any mistakes they make - blame shifting.

Reply by Julie/MI on 8/1/07 3:02pm
Msg #203252

No there is no way I would ever make copies of the executed documents for myself. Too costly and not necessary.

Let's just say the borrowers did initial the pages and there was a fire and the pages were burned execpt for the signature page and your notary page. title can simply overnight the initial pages to the borrower and have them re-initial without you.

What you are describing is a rare.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 3:45pm
Msg #203259

yes, this is so rare this has never happened to me either after doing this quite a while.
always liked your slant on things, Julie

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 8/1/07 6:45pm
Msg #203293

Scanning

Ok, I'll explain once more why I scan each executed package for those of you that have not read my posts regarding adding ancillary income to your signing fee.

At the onset of accepting an assignment, I always offer "scan-back service" for an additional $25-$50 per package to the TC. I explain that within 2 hours of the closing, the fully executed package is scanned and emailed back to the EO so she/he can begin their post-closing compliance with confidence that the package was properly executed. A real life-saver for Escrow Officers at EOM.
Sometimes, they "order" the scan-back service at the onset of appointment confirmation. Sometimes they don't. After the signing is complete, I call to give them status and offer it once again prior to shipping.
I don't need to sell anyone on this concept. It works for me, and adds up quite nicely. In my case, it has paid off in spades.
Of course, those that work for SS's won't reap the same benefit.

I don't scan executed packages because I fear they'll be called into question or rife with errors that can come back to haunt me. I do it because for the 5 minutes it takes, it pays off in spades.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/1/07 7:56pm
Msg #203312

Re: Scanning

One could create a small check list that could be initialed by the borrower as you review the packet before leaving. As you are reviewing each page, have them in tandem initial your list.
Make a list only of the documents that generally create havoc if not signed or initialed. Since not all Deeds of Trust require initials on all pages, make sure your list includes with and without initials. This action would not require anymore time as hopefully all notaries check their docs before leaving. Most borrowers sit and watch you review the docs anyway. Just maybe one solution to a rare problem.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 8:18pm
Msg #203316

Re: Scanning

But we kinda determined that she didn't make an error in this case and the title company was at fault somehow.

My check system is flip through the documents as many times to get a clean pass through.
Then you fire that thing off.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 8:27pm
Msg #203317

Re: Scanning

This "scan-back" service may be ok if it is early in the day and you are not busy. Are you going to hold onto the package when you have to go back to your office and scan? Or do you use a mobile scanner in your vehicle? What if you have another signing after that? Most of the companies I deal with don't sweat at the end of the month because they know they will receive a perfectly executed package no matter what the circumstances are.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/1/07 8:55pm
Msg #203321

IT IS TO USED TO INCREASE REVENUE!!!!!!!!!!

Lisa, some people don't get this...but me, I thank you for sharing the idea with me earlier.
I have the ability to scan from the car....and drop docs before I go on with my evening, be it other appts or go home.
AND it covers my a$$ should I ever have the experience the original poster discussed.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 10:09pm
Msg #203334

Re: IT IS TO USED TO INCREASE REVENUE!!!!!!!!!!


No need to put in caps smart-ass? Also, is the fact that you two are the only two who seem to "get it" across the country. I am sure your scan back service is breaking all kinds of records.
I don't like the idea or working in my car. Are you scanning while driving? My a** has been always been covered and I have completed close to 10,000 closings

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/1/07 10:36pm
Msg #203344

Re: IT IS TO USED TO INCREASE REVENUE!!!!!!!!!!

That means so mych coming from someone who finds time to respond to nearly every post written in this forum for the last 30 days. Annoying!

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 10:54pm
Msg #203349

Re: Annoying

What's annoying is you acting like a know it all? Learn how to respond to your peers on this board

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 8/1/07 11:49pm
Msg #203353

Re: IT IS TO USED TO INCREASE REVENUE!!!!!!!!!!

You are SO off the mark Johnny. We aren't the "only two who get it" across the country. Frankly, at this point, we're the only two that have chosen to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
I can honestly say that you are by far one of the most annoying trolls to appear on this board in recent months, and quite possibly may win the award for "Useless Poster of the Year, 2007".
Seriously.
Is your name really Fran?

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 8/1/07 9:35pm
Msg #203328

Re: Scanning

Your post implies that my packages are less-than-perfect, hence the need for scanning. As a Florida NSA Network Charter Member, I guarantee ALL work to be 100% error free, every time (and it is). Consequently, this is my primary source of income and I do not work for SS's.
Now, not that I want to piss on your parade, but...
Scan back service is "ok" any time of day. Yes, I do have a mobile office with a multi-function machine in my vehicle, as a matter of fact. My little miracle worker just scans and scans all the while I am trotting off to the nearest FedEx drop. And, it isn't about "sweating" at EOM, Johnny. It's obvious to me you've never actually worked in a Title office by your comment. When there are 30 packages that arrive via FedEx to post close, believe me when I say that to have the opportunity to get a few done prior to the deluge is a godsend.

Good grief. Why must some people just fine-tune everything to death?

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/1/07 10:18pm
Msg #203336

Re: Scanning


Do you feed your miracle worker at the Fedex Box or while you are driving? We have our end of the month deluge, and they have theirs.

I didn't realize you were a Charter Member of the Florida NSA Network. I am really impressed now. Up north here, we are not as bright as you Southerners down in the Sunshine State

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/1/07 11:26pm
Msg #203351

Why JohnnyB that isn't very polite now is it, y'all?

Why are you arguing with anyone that disagrees with you?

It doesn’t matter what state any of us are in we are working this business to make a living.

The scan back service that Lisa and Misty refer to is very nice money maker for many of our members. We have received calls from TC clients that have become repeat customers because it is a service most of us offer.

You don't offer it and don't see the need that is your choice but don't try and put us down because we have found a 'niche to make more money in a down time for our industry. If I do 30 closings a month and scan and fax back for 10 of them, then I have made an extra $250. We aren't going to turn that down.

As to your quote "Up north here, we are not as bright as you Southerners down in the Sunshine State" Trust me you have proven your point over and over.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/2/07 11:36am
Msg #203420

Re: Why JohnnyB that isn't very polite now is it, y'all?

I am only arguing with the FSA charter member network, not everyone.

Reply by FlBrit on 8/2/07 11:43am
Msg #203426

Re: She is a Charter Member

of The Florida NSA Network

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 8/2/07 12:17am
Msg #203355

Re: Scanning

No one's being a smart-aleck, Johnny. Lisa merely pointed out that there is another way to add a bit to one's bottom line. Obviously, you're not interested in adding a small extra service which 1) adds to one's fee on a signing and 2) helps TCs remember that "excellent closer" they used before.

Lisa was kind enough to give me a heads up on the scanning opportunity. I've been offering it for about a month and a half now and have received a ton of positive feedback from old and new customers. Oh, I also added about $300 over the month to my standard fees by offering scan-back services, most of that at EOM.

Like Lisa, I'm a Charter Member of the FL NSA Network. Our standards include a 100% guarantee of error-free work and always striving to provide the best and most up-to-date service to our customers. Most of our members are completely mobile and do have the capability to scan, copy, fax and print while on the road.

Sometimes it's the little things that make a difference to TCs. Several companies call me before other notaries in my area because I am mobile and can handle their last minute transactions. They also love having an immediate scan back in order to start their work to get the package funded. In this business, with competition as fierce as it is, it's ALL about perceived value.

I'm so glad that I followed good advice from other business people who have great ideas.

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/2/07 2:08am
Msg #203364

I'm not sure why John Henshaw aka JohnnyB has such an issue

I think Lisa and others who've developed an additional source of income and a unique niche should be commended for their ingenuity and business sense. I'll take their expertise and knowledge over a Johnny come lately any day of the week.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/2/07 8:25am
Msg #203373

Re: I'm not sure why John Henshaw aka JohnnyB has such an issue

I think we have historically seen this over the years...new members, repetitious posting and short tempers when things slow down in the industry. If I were John, I'd post less, read more, and try to research and implement new ideas offered by others.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/2/07 11:28am
Msg #203415

Re: Michigan Al AKA Alex Yvonnu



If it works for them that is fine. If you go back and look at the tone of the e-mails, they act pompous and cocky which is not the way to argue a point. I'm not convinced it is a viable service.

1. From the responses, they are the only ones doing this across the country. They have mentioned this idea before as I re-call and they still appear to be the only ones offering this service.
2. Large title companies with rigid fees are not going to want this service, so the opportunities are limited. And with declining fees, companies are not going to want to pay for this service
3. They don't mention the additional mobile equipment costs required to offer this service. And 5 minutes to scan 150 pages, don't believe it.
4. If you were making so much money on this service, why would you mention this here.
5. If you are going to present a case here, don't fluff it up, bring some real numbers to the table.

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/2/07 11:40am
Msg #203422

Re: Michigan Al AKA Alex Yvonnu

You are the type that will be left behind in this changeing industry. New ideas are what we all need. Motivation will charge your brain.

Reply by JohnnyB on 8/2/07 12:10pm
Msg #203440

Re: Michigan Al AKA Alex Yvonnu

Instead of beating your chest proudly with new ideas, answer my questions

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 8/2/07 1:52pm
Msg #203476

Let me address your 5 bullet points, and I'll type slowly so

that you'll understand.

1. "We" are not the only ones doing this across the country. Notaries in Oregon, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri and Wisconsin have all emailed me with success stories since I first posted on this subject months ago. Take what you want... leave the rest. You'll soon find your competition leagues ahead of you.

2. You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Land America, one of the larges Title Companies in the country, frequently requests this service from me, especially when it involves a Lender with strict funding instructions. Oh, and btw... they regularly meet my base fee of $150 + $$ for scan-back service. Just an example, mind you. They are not the only ones, I am happy to say.

3. My entire mobile office consists of the following: Laptop $450, Pure sine power inverter $175, Deep cycle marine battery $60, Brother multi-function machine $200. Total investment (since I said I would speak slowly, I'll do the math for you, too) a mere $885.
I did not include mobile internet service since it was already in place prior to setting up my mobile office. I recouped my investment in less than 2 months.
As for "5 minutes to scan 150 pages": If your scanner is not performing as such, might I suggest that you fine-tune your scanner settings. I am not here to set your scanner up for you or manage your business. Figure it out.

4. Because this is a Forum for Professional Notaries. This would seem to escape you for very obvious reasons. I consider MOST people on this site to be my friends and peers, not my competition. Yes, JohnnyB, I am THAT secure

5. My "numbers" are none of your business, frankly. However, I did bring my numbers (verified) to a Network Meeting in Sebring, Florida last fall. I earned an additional $10,000 in 2006 by offering scan-back service to my Title Company clients. Again, I'll do the math for you since it seems to trouble you so much: Approximately 150 of the closings I performed in 2006 requested scan-back service.

What a troll you've become.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/2/07 2:18pm
Msg #203498

JB - Your questions answered...

Your comments are outside the []'s. My comments are within the []'s


If it works for them that is fine. If you go back and look at the tone of the e-mails, they act pompous and cocky which is not the way to argue a point.

[JB, you are not the final say on what is the correct way to argue a point.]

I'm not convinced it is a viable service.

[That doesn't mean in someone else's experience that it isn't a VIABLE service. I don't do it, but I am totally convinced if Lisa Prestegard says it is a good thing in their networking group, then it is.]

1. From the responses, they are the only ones doing this across the country.

[From what I understand (and believe) their efforts on increasing service value has in fact significantly increased their individual bottom lines in a downturning industry.]

They have mentioned this idea before as I re-call and they still appear to be the only ones offering this service.
[Huh? How do you know they are the only ones offering this service?]

2. Large title companies with rigid fees are not going to want this service,

[Incorrect, daddio. Your statements, as usual, sweep a bit broadly. My experience and view say otherwise.]

The opportunities are limited.

[But there are still opportunities.]

And with declining fees, companies are not going to want to pay for this service.

[Broad sweeping generalization without basis...which *I* believe is wrong, based on my experience and my current industry view.]

3. They don't mention the additional mobile equipment costs required to offer this service.

[Very weak argument. The equipment is already there to take edocs while on the road. Bad logic.]

And 5 minutes to scan 150 pages, don't believe it.

[I do. They have better equipment than you and I do, trust me on this.]

4. If you were making so much money on this service, why would you mention this here.

[Because it will help the VERY small percentage who will not pooh-pooh the idea as too much work...or, those who will say this is too much to spend on a business, yada yada...there are a very small percentage of people who'll use this and other ideas to get a leg up....who are in it for the long haul...who aren't penny pinchers on their work equipment while spending a ton on their dually pick 'em up trucks, botox treatments, green fees, hair products, pedicures, fine leather brief cases, and on and on ad nauseum while their business suffers because they are too cheap to get the kind of set up they need to compete.]

5. If you are going to present a case here, don't fluff it up, bring some real numbers to the table.

[That's just snarky.]