Posted by MistarellaFL on 8/24/07 8:01am
Msg #207402

Countrywide underwriter's witness requirements

I just found out yesterday that the TC's I work with on behalf of Countyrwide, are adding witnesses to the mortgage (not required by Florida) after the package has been returned to them.
I found out from a TC employee who didn't realize it was a no-no to tell the notary, and I looked up a multitude of CW recorded mtgs, different TC's, and ALL of them had witnesses added.
I have been told that CW's underwriter's REQUIRE 2 witnesses sign the mtg., and this is not only common, but acceptable, and is covered in the Limited POA for scrivener's errors.
I feel like I am covered...once it is out of my hands I am no longer in control of what the TC does.
I am looking forward to hearing from other experienced NSA's on this subject.

Reply by MelissaCT on 8/24/07 8:08am
Msg #207406

Re: Ltd POA for errors

Adding witness signatures who didn't actually witness the signature of the signer isn't correcting a typo, no matter what they say. That would be like signing for the borrower on a document that was added to the package at a later time -- one which the borrower never saw.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 8/24/07 8:26am
Msg #207411

I was the loan officer on a RM and we attend our closings and actually conduct the closing. The title company first told me that I could do the closing but I could not notarize because it was my loan, they told me to send the docs back and they would notarize. I said NO WAY, she then told me I could hire a notary. TC's do this all the time. I went on line and checked my own mortgage refinances and the title company signed it after it got back to them.

I have a Countrywide closing tonight and I have arranged for the witness requirement as I do for a all my loans. It is not a Florida requirement but is a lender requirement. It is not always in the closing instructions
but when I got the first call about not getting 2 witness signatures, I have done it since.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/24/07 9:28am
Msg #207425

Re: Thanks for this info - I"ll start watching my

Countrywide's (although if there's a line with "witness" under it I usually witness) - however, be aware that, although not required by the state, some counties in FL REQUIRE witnesses (i.e. Dixie County) - I learned that the hard way..

Reply by dickb/wi on 8/24/07 10:12am
Msg #207440

if it is not in the written....

instructions or if it is and they don'ty make arrangements for the wittnesses they don't get them......i do country wides all the time with out witnesses and no they don't add them later.... it is unlawful for a notary to notarize a document with any blanks in it, so before i notarize i draw a line thru any blanks w/my initals including the witness lines...i have never had any repercussions......just my .02

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/24/07 10:25am
Msg #207450

Re: if it is not in the written....

Dick, with the exception of drawing lines through the second witness line, I would have written exactly what you have. Have you looked up any recorded mtgs?
I am finding out that adding witnesses is a lot more prevalent than we think.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 8/24/07 10:50am
Msg #207467

Re: if it is not in the written....

I've spent a few days at the local court house, and there aren't any witnesses being added, including CWs.

Also, it isn't unlawful in Oregon to notarize a document with blanks in it, as long as the signer is aware they are there. Per the SOS, it is a "good idea" to note in your journal that there were blanks.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/24/07 10:54am
Msg #207468

I would love to know what happens if the mortgage is ever disputed, and they had to bring the witnesses to court to swear that they saw the signing sign the mortgage. Especially when the signer is in, say, Florida, and the witnesses are in, say, California.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/24/07 10:55am
Msg #207469

Re: Countrywide underwriter's witness requirements - typo

That should have read "saw the signer signing the mortgage"