Posted by Richard Luna Sr. on 8/4/07 8:56pm
Msg #204020

Lesson Learned

Recently, I made a (potentially) huge mistake & almost got myself in a real bind. Rec'vd a call at 4:30 PM for a signing that night @ 8:30, also a half hr away from home. Appt confirmed w/borrower, his wife & grandmother (She's 80).

Doc's begin printing @ 5:30 & comprised about 130 pgs (one set for borrower, one for lender). Rt away, I'm starting to stress because of the #of pgs (printing time) & traveling distance. Doc's printed OK on letter size w/no cutoffs @ bottom. One page did require a signature on 2nd page but other than that one, all were OK letter size. My concern was to just get the doc's printed & do the signing w/no mistakes.

Upon arriving, borrower wants his grandmother to sign her doc's rt away so she can go to bed. So I do my journal stuff w/my journal & after grandma finishes signing, it's now about 9:15. Both spouses do their doc signatures & after rechecking everything, I leave @ about 10:45. When home, I again checked the doc's & noticed a page stating which doc's were to be letter & legal size. I had totally missed it. I immediately phoned the SS & they said to reprint the ones that needed to be legal & to recontact the borrower because the lender had really strict rules. Phoned the borrower @ 11:30 but no answer. My intent was to contact them 1st thing in the morning before they went to work.

Next morning @ 6:30, I again phoned borrower & again no answer. He finally calls @ 7:30 but states he's already @ work (about 30 miles away & his wife has already left for her job in the opposite direction (about 30 miles away). He says he cannot sign any doc's @ work & won't be home until 3 PM. He also says he won't let his grandmother sign anything ww/out him being present. The one problem I had was trying to meet Fed-Ex's P/U time at 3:30 locally, further, the doc's were date sensitive needed to be in the lender's office the following morning. Also, the recission expiration date was set for the following Monday & all doc's were already dated w/the signing date. The doc's only required signatures & initials. In the interim, I phoned the NNA re: the dated doc's & they told me that they would have to be reprinted & the signing handled as a completely new assignment.

At this point, I'm completely stressed out because I knew I couldn't meet the Fed-Ex P/U time & would have trouble meeting a later drop off time (7 PM) @ another Fed-Ex location, about 20 miles away. I knew I wouldn't be able to meet any of the deadline times & @ this point I began thinking about an impending lawsuit by the borrowers & that I had totally screwed everything up. I didn't know how this mess could be straightened out. I ultimately phoned the lender's office & able to contact the Land Ofcr. It turned out that the notarized doc's were OK letter for filing & that the other doc's were OK in letter size. I phoned & confirmed w/him the following Monday & he said all was OK. He was most appreciative that I had phoned him personally. I'm not saying to always phone the L/O, but in this case it turned out OK.

I apologize for this being so long but I wtd to let other notaries (loan signing agents) to be very careful & take notice of all pages w/instructions. I've done over 300 signings, I got complacent & it almost cost me. Never assume anything. I know I'll make other mistakes down the road but I sure learned something on this tone.

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 8/4/07 9:27pm
Msg #204021

I never print all on letter size paper, I always use legal size because I don't have a dual tray printer. It is also best to go over the entire packet and read lender instructions before going to your assignment. Many packets do not have enough Notices of Right to Cancel (Countrywide often has only one per set). I can't believe you have done over 300 signings and printed an entire packet on letter paper...trying to save money?

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/4/07 9:29pm
Msg #204022

Richard, this is why I print everything on legal. FWIW, unless an nsa has a dual tray printer I think (my personal opinion) it's pure folly to print all on letter size. Sometimes my boss (attorney) prints closing documents (like the HUD) on letter and no one says a word about it being a problem...he's young...he sees great, however, many people don't see that small print so easily.

Where you get into trouble printing on letter is for instance where the DoT is too small for the county clerk to accept the print. Some clerk's offices have rules against it. I don't think my local one does. They'll record anything but will send a note back saying it may or may not get the job done if a title search is done. A lot of times the lenders couldn't care less because they don't know, but the title company is the one who needs to oversee that all is done correctly in the recording part of the transaction.

And, in general, the SS is clueless as well about what needs to be done and just operates with an abundance of caution.

Good point on complacency...it happens to all of us...and btw:

**In the interim, I phoned the NNA re: the dated doc's & they told me that they would have to be reprinted & the signing handled as a completely new assignment.**

Well...that was a big fat waste of time. IMHO, they don't know "come here" from "sic 'em" when it comes to signing reality...they do, however, know how to make people believe they are an authority rather than a company which...well, I don't want to get started.

As you can see, they didn't know what they were talking about.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 8/4/07 9:57pm
Msg #204023

When in doubt

always print on legal. Some recorders are very strict not only about side margins, but top margins on first page also. If a document is scanned in legal and printed out on letter, it may all print, but the margins will be off.

Now another point of advice, don't let this job stress you out too much. The appointment was at 8:30, you got the docs at 5:30. Even with my old HP4+, 2 sets of docs wouldn't have taken more than one hour to print, leaving you still 2 hours to make a 1/2 hour trip. When we get up tight and upset is almost always when we make these stupid mistakes. Stress feeds upon itself so try and relax and just roll with the punches.

Reply by David Sparks on 8/4/07 10:39pm
Msg #204024

Re: When in doubt

I have a dual tray printer, so it's not a problem. But, I got a signing last month where the LENDER wanted only letter size. The escrow company sent me Legal title docs, so I had to call the signing service (they are great about taking care of this kind of stuff) and they called the lender for me. Lender said they didn't care what the title docs were, but that all loan docs had to be letter.

They also had one place that had to be signed in black instead of blue.

Think this industry will ever get anything standardized?

Reply by LJ on 8/4/07 10:42pm
Msg #204025

Re: When in doubt

Another good reason to get a dual tray. Would have saved you a lot of time and stress. Plus, printing legal all the time costs too much. Legal paper is much higher in cost.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 8/4/07 10:49pm
Msg #204027

I always print on legal unless I can determine which size

My printer is a single tray HP1300 LaserJet. With .pdf files, you can see which are letter and which are legal size. Also, I check the assignment sheet and the instructions sheet to see if there is any information as to desired size. Many times I see that they want all documents on legal, period. If not specified, and if the docs are received with sufficient time to do so, I go through the .pdf file and just keep switching paper in the printer tray. Legal is already in there, and I change the Properties to print on Legal. As I go scroll through the pages, I may see for example that pages 1-10 are legal, pages 11 to 47 are letter, page 48 is legal, pages 49 to 51 are letter, etc. So I print pages 1-10 first, add a batch of letter paper on top of the legal paper, print pages 11 to 47 (no need to change Properties), remove the letter paper, print page 48 on legal, add the letter paper, print pages 49 to 51, etc.
Yes, I know this is timeconsuming and I should just go buy a second tray, but if the docs have arrived on time or early, and if I have time to do this, it's just a little extra service to the lender and title company. Buying a second tray seems to be a permanent line on my "to do" list. LOL
However, if the title company has specified all docs are to be on legal paper, or if the docs haven't arrived in a timely manner, I just print them all on legal and "get 'er done". Defaulting to legal is the best way, and if any have to be on letter, you can use an office-style paper cutter to cut them down to size. I have an old but reliable "gillotine" style one that cuts so smoothly you would never know a sheet of paper was cut down from legal to letter.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/5/07 9:24am
Msg #204036

Wow Sharon, you're better than I am...

When I had the single tray EVERYTHING went on legal, period. Once I got the dual tray...it's a party!

Reply by lin/OH on 8/5/07 12:39pm
Msg #204045

Re: I always print on legal unless I can determine which size

Well Sharon, I always use Legal..But I must give it to you WOW!!! go girl.

Reply by sue_pa on 8/5/07 9:27am
Msg #204037

A couple things jump out at me here.

Why were you stressing at 5:30 about printing docs? You had 2.5 hours to print until you had to leave for your appt. With the PROPER equipment to do this job, you should be able to print both sets in 15 or 20 minutes, tops. You still should have had time to go out to dinner and watch Judge Judy. If you need 2.5 hours to print a simple 130 page doc set, something is wrong - not talking about the VERY odd occasion when someone scans a package in wrong - talking about MOST times here.

Sorry if Grandma is old but they scheduled the appt. for that time of the day. When I do a closing everyone sits at the table at the same time we start and everyone is still sitting there when we finish. I don't go through the docs twice because someone wants to go to bed, has to leave for work, has to finish mowing the grass, etc.

As for the letter/legal, very seldom is everything on letter, unless you have shrunk it down - and I have no idea why anyone would do that.

Reply by Richard Luna Sr. on 8/5/07 1:19pm
Msg #204048

Thank you people for your input. It may have sounded like I still had plenty of time between the doc's being printed out & the appt time, but I have made errors in the past & don't like doing a signing w/out having enough time to check the doc's thoroughly beforehand. Enough said & again, thanks.

Reply by dickb/wi on 8/5/07 2:45pm
Msg #204052

i print all docs legal---period--- n/m

Reply by Larry/Ca on 8/5/07 3:08pm
Msg #204053

Re: i print all docs legal---period---

Dick, do you ignore the instructions when they say letter docs MUST be printed on letter size, or do you cut them down?

Reply by Richard Luna Sr. on 8/6/07 9:20am
Msg #204077

Re: i print all docs legal---period---

I do neither. I ALWAYS try to follow the instructions & usually ask what size the doc's are to be printed. I guess I made myself look bad in this case. All I can say is I just did not take notice of the page telling me what size the doc's were to be printed. Maybe I should have never have told anyone what happened. I was just trying to warn other notaries to be careful, that's all. No one is perfect. Sure I've done a lot of signings & thus I probably should have known better, but you can't tell me NO notary has ever made a mistake. With this type of work, one admitted mistake & a can of worms suddenly opens up. Next time I'll just keep quiet. Sorry folks.

Reply by kcg on 8/6/07 10:02am
Msg #204087

Re: i print all docs legal---period---

Richard: You are correct....NO ONE is absolutely perfect and by posting a stupid mistake that one of us makes is, IMO, a good thing. There are plenty of "newbies" who read this board and when an experienced SA makes a booboo it serves to enforce that rule "read your instructions carefully".

When I see a profile that says "thousands of closings done error-free", I wonder. I triple check my docs before returning them and there have still been a few errors that get by me. Sometimes, especially at EOM, you can look at a document 5x and still not see the mistake. I recently did a CW/FS split ( I've done numerous splits) and after checking that a number of times I STILL missed an affidavit that should have gone to title but went to CW instead. Fortunately, CW found the doc and got it to title but I did get a call on it.

So don't feel bad that a few people jumped up to tell you that you shouldn't have made that error.......many, many more appreciated the reminder you were emphasizing.

Reply by Richard Luna Sr. on 8/6/07 12:08pm
Msg #204122

Re: i print all docs legal---period---

To KCG, thanks.

Reply by Superior Processing - Eliesha Schick on 8/6/07 1:00pm
Msg #204134

Re: i print all docs legal---period---

I have a laser printer dual tray Brother HL525ODN and I always click the box that says to print by PDF size.

That chooses the size for you. If you can just buy a dual laser printer on sale, it will make up for you money very fast by giving you more time to fit others in or by having a bit less hassle and stress... I did the HP one try ink jet for a bit and gave up fast on that... I would never go back. BYW- I love Brother products, I went through tons of HP's per year and still using the the same Brother for over a year now. Just dont put too much paper in the trays, it gives more life to the lifters in the trays.... I learned that the hard way!

Reply by jba/fl on 8/6/07 1:21pm
Msg #204139

Please don't keep quiet and to yourself, we all learn some-

thing from each other. We (except for a few who just never make mistakes) all make mistakes and profit from them. Sharing just gives a wry grin internally if nothing else. Just lurking is not the way to go through life - got to get into the fray from time to time. I have been called to task a few times here, and just remember that old Abe Lincoln saying: "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."