Posted by AngelinaAZ on 8/10/07 6:39pm
Msg #204988

OK so... about those Notary classes...

Do the um... so called 'teachers' take any accountability for the misinformation they give to the wet-nosed newbies they send out into the world?

Something weird is happening lately. The little whipper snappers are going to signings thinking they are the sh$t... and that they know more about the loans than anyone else. Did they miss the newsflash that they are really NOT supposed to get involved in the how and why of the loan... and that they are contracted to do a job that includes PEOPLE SKILLS?

The more newbies that come out of these 'super' classes thinking that they are the best of the best... that they are going to CONTROL the signing and the BORROWER... eeesshh! This is about customer service and you... newbie... are not the customer. It's not about your convenience or your time or your comfort. It's about the borrower.

Have you ever heard the old saying... THOSE WHO CAN'T DO... TEACH? Consider who it is that you might be learning from. Do your own homework... learn your own laws and take a class in CUSTOMER SERVICE for goodness sake... then you might actually double your business.

Disclaimer... I'm sure there are one or two notary class graduate newbies that are the very best notaries ever...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/10/07 6:45pm
Msg #204990

You mean Loan Signing Classes. Notary classes are different. I taught notary classes here in Florida (was selected to teach because of my knowledge of notary laws). I didn't teach loan signing classes.
There are too many "certified" signing agents who really don't know the first thing either about being a notary or being a signing agent - you can tell based on the "newbe" questions that are getting asked on here all the time lately.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/10/07 6:52pm
Msg #204994

Yep... loan signing classes.

And Sylvia... if only someone like you WOULD teach a Loan Signing Class... you might actually be able to hire one of them with reasonable certainty that they'd do their job right. Aren't you ever scared when you have to hire someone new? It's like playing Russian Roulette with twenty people's paychecks.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/10/07 6:56pm
Msg #204997

Re: Yep... loan signing classes.

I don't hire someone who is new to loan signings. I require experience. But when I have to hire someone I haven't used before I am always a little nervous. But I always read their profiles carefully and check how long they have been a notary.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/10/07 7:18pm
Msg #205001

Well I'm about sick of the 'newbie know it alls'

I don't hire the SA... I'm just the one at the lender that has to run interference when a job goes south. At first I thought it was a fluke but we've had several where things went badly because of a blatant lack of customer service. I actually called the SA myself and I was stunned at the attitude they threw me when I confronted the unprofessional behavior. I was 'informed' that they 'learned in their classes' how to control a signing.

Well... I can control who the TC calls again and guess what... it won't be that SA.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/10/07 7:18pm
Msg #205002

Re: Yep... loan signing classes.

I got caught up on my mail today after being on vacation. I have a letter from the Notary Law Institute of which I am a member. They are holding Notary Classes in WI in September at various locations. I really like this organization. They take things a step further and address additional issues that the straight cut and dry course does not cover. Examples are How Statute law afects you, Employer Liability, Your rights as a notary , Myths and horror stories. Their newletter is outstanding and covers current case rulings involving notaries.
Even though I have been doing this for 9 yrs I am considering taking this course. I cannot assume I know everything. I feel a good solid education in Notary law plus the state specifics is imperative BEFORE taking the Signing agent courses. After all, you are a notary first.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/10/07 8:18pm
Msg #205009

Re: Yep... loan signing classes.

Is anyone familiar with the SigningPro Professional notary training Program? This company touts 1,214,784 successful signings in the industry. This course talks about psychology and a certain degree on control beginning with the confirmation call. Are any of ya'll brave enough to call Shirlene Reeves the CFO and tell her that they are misguiding notaries out there with this training program? As part of my continuing and never ending education, I took this course and have seen the merits of psycology and subtle control during the signing. The essence of "people skills" is psychology and reading body language.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/10/07 9:34pm
Msg #205015

Re: Yep... loan signing classes.

Well if I hear that this is where the SA's are getting their information... I certainly will call Shirlene Reeves and tell her to start giving an IQ and personality test before she lets them take the class. Too much psychology in the wrong hands isn't a good thing. 'People skills' coated with arrogance give people a bad taste in their mouth. Nobody wants to be condescended to and nobody wants someone making them feel insignificant in their own home. Whatever the goal of teaching such things... if it is turning into arrogance once it marinates in the minds of the students... it doesn't belong.

In a perfect world we could expect perfection from the borrower and the SA, TC, LO... etc. But it isn't a perfect world everyone involved is paid to do a job independently from everyone else... but they are all linked and each one greatly affects the end result.

Taking steps to head off problems... such as making a confirmation call and ensuring the borrower has everything they need is more along the lines of preparedness than control. You start getting into 'who's in charge' and 'who's in control' and you are going to run into problems. If you want to keep working in this industry and not get blacklisted you better make sure that whatever control and psychology you are exerting over the borrowers and your signing... is SO SUBTLE that nobody notices.

The entire effort of putting a loan together is getting the borrower what THEY need... what THEY want. You walk into a closing with what YOU need and what YOU want and you are doing yourself, the borrower and everyone involved a disservice.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/10/07 9:49pm
Msg #205019

Nice to see you back on the board Angelina

I've always enjoyed your posts and can't find a single thing to disagree with. Well said!

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/10/07 11:00pm
Msg #205027

Control does not always = arrogance

Control in the right hands can bring a sense of professionalism to the closing. That confidence, I think, gives the borrower relief that you, the agent, knows his or her stuff and can trust you to handle this loan process. I am the only face to face person this individual sees and certainly there is no place for arrogance. The borrowers treat me with homemade quince wine to take home, fresh hen eggs, etc.. And at the end of the month , a very good income, thanks to all the training from various sources and the many forums.

Reply by SharonMN on 8/11/07 2:23am
Msg #205032

Re: Control does not always = arrogance

Well said, Snoop. I think the notary does have to control the signing. Otherwise it's possible to have the signing take forever while the borrower chats with you, takes calls, deals with the kids, etc. - not to mention that the signing service can have you doing all kinds of extra and maybe even illegal work for $50 if you don't put your foot down. This job is not for timid people that let others walk all over them, and perhaps that's the point the classes try to make. HOWEVER, there's a huge difference being going into a signing being cheerfully professional and competent (a lot of times things get off track if you 're confused and don't move through the docs fast enough - and then the borrower gets nervous or bored) and having an attitude. This job definitely isn't for control freaks, either.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/11/07 6:03am
Msg #205036

Re: Control does not always = arrogance

Sharon, I 'll say it before someone else beats the dead horse a little more. If you are closing for $50, you need to charge higher fees to keep the bar raised for the industry.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/11/07 6:38am
Msg #205038

Re: Control does not always = arrogance

Sharon said *and maybe even illegal work for $50 if you don't put your foot down. *

I think that was one of those "combined thoughts" that mean put your foot down against $50 as well as the rest. I don't think Sharon's taking $50 appointments. JMHO.

Reply by SharonMN on 8/11/07 2:42pm
Msg #205072

Re: Control does not always = arrogance

Thank you, Brenda. You are correct - I am saying that a signing agent (not me) who just does what anyone tells them to do without taking control of their own business will quickly end up not only taking lowball fees, but also putting in a lot of extra work for those lowball fees (faxbacks, extra mileage, repeat trips) as well as putting themselves at risk by backdating, using improper/missing ID, notarizing blank forms, performing "closing agent" duties such as signing the HUD, etc.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/11/07 7:17am
Msg #205041

Re: Yep... loan signing classes.

*This job definitely isn't for control freaks, either.*

SharonMN said that somewhere in this thread. Amen.

In Texas if you are involved in the property, mortgage, and title business you know a little bit about how to model your behavior during a closing.

If you observe the actions of a good title company closer you know this is about accommodating the borrower with an experience that is as pleasant as taking high tea with a friend if at all possible. Part of that experience includes poise and knowledge from the closer. Closing appointment "control" is awarded easily to the closer who has both knowledge and poise.

In this industry the problem with the post Angelina makes is a looming shadow of ignorance about the whole process by those acting as notary signing agent. The NSAs who take classes are led to believe by the teachers that they can actually teach them the entire process, zillions of nuances, answers (and now even psychology!) relating to the closing process in a class of one or a few hours. Every class should carry a caveat that this is only a microscopic shot in a long process and that one must continue to self-educate. The classes should not imply that it is the final step in becoming an efficient and effective signing agent.

If you haven't read at least one text book on real estate transactions in your state, at least one text book on mortgage lending, and if you don't know what the process is from the broker/lender's first meeting with the borrower, to processing the loan, opening title and finalizing the HUD before the signing of the documents then you are kind of selling yourself short and boxing yourself into limiting your closing skills as well as not understanding how you might offer yourself for hire in other levels of the mortgage industry.

Not that you should share all this book knowledge with borrowers but that you should build your confidence level with a real understanding of the industry...else your "control" techniques becomes arrogance and close-mindedness...which, quite frankly, sounds completely ignorant to the educated borrower. It'll get you a poor mark from the true real estate leaders in your community...and those are the ones who will sustain your business in the upcoming years if you are ever able to brush elbows with them as a signing agent.

Again, jmho.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 8/11/07 5:22pm
Msg #205088

Re: Yep... loan signing classes. I think you got something

there Brenda but my reading of Angelina's original post was not about taking control of the signing but the fact that a lot of newbies are out there thinking that they must control the signing but have no idea how to do so. A notary takes control of the signing in numerous ways some subtle and some not so subtle depending ont he situation. Unofrtunately a notary has to have credibility and rarely does control have to be felt by the borrower, it can frequently be done jsut through the presence of the notary. By presence I am referring to the knowledge and bearing of a true professional notary; newbies are incapable of projecting that kind of presence. I am sure that you can recount numerous instances of "taking control" of a signing yourself just to keep in on track. I think that Angelina has a valid point and as always your comments about the ingnorance invading this business are on point. Regards to both of you.