Posted by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 8:42am
Msg #204258

T.V. tray

I had a piggyback loan (160 pages) last evening and the couple wanted to close the loan on a T.V. tray (you've got to be kidding) because her table had her good dishes on it with a bunch of other stuff. Taking authority here, I told them the loan had to be closed on the table as my time was valuable. Being miffed, she cleaned the table off with my help and she had an attitude throughout the loan until near the end. After an hour and 1/2 we had become friends. This is where being authoritative and not letting the borrower dictate the closing becomes necessary.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/7/07 8:48am
Msg #204263

Hmmm....

Obviously I'll never make it in this business because I do the exact opposite, I'm there for the BO's, they're paying me, we'll close on the roof if that's what they want. While I wouldn't like it, I'm there for them.

I'm afraid if I have an SA show up in my home who's time is that valuable I'd clearly adjourn so that they can press on and make bigger money.

My point? We're a CONVENIENCE for the borrower, not a necessity. Sometimes it's perfect, sometimes it's not...it all evens out in the wash.

Reply by PAW on 8/7/07 9:10am
Msg #204264

Totally agree w/Sue

It's the customer we are to satisfy, not our own wants and desires. We are providing a service, CUSTOMER service. Let's not loose focus of that.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 9:13am
Msg #204265

I have to disagree with you here as had there been no table obviously the T.V. tray would have served the purpose. They knew I was coming and she just didn't want to clean the table off. The money is not an issue with me but rather what is best to facilitate an environment that makes the loan flow and less subject to error. I took a course that maintains that the notary take control of the process within reason. So I suppose that if one of the borrowers decides to leave the table and go off and talk on the phone with a friend about yesterdays soap-opera that you will tolerate this? How long will you sit there and hope this person will come back to the table? Apparently you didn't notice that I said that she and I were friends by the end of the loan. I have yet to leave a loan that the borrowers and I could not become future friends. This job is not a casper milk toast job and requires exceptional people skills from beginning to end starting with the confirmation call.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/7/07 9:17am
Msg #204267

Re: T.V. tray So What would you have done...

if they refused to clear the table and insisted on the t.v. tray? I agree with Paul and Sue, we are there for the customer's convenience. I'll do whatever I need to do, within reason, to make the signing flow and be completed.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 8/7/07 9:25am
Msg #204269

I had a closing last night, about 120 pages, I came at the scheduled time and he was eating dinner, left me waiting, until he was done. He walked around, took out the trash and then graced me with his presence. What did I do? Nothing. What could I do? Nothing.

Last Friday, had a closing at 6pm. Got a call at noon telling me that they had made plans and wanted me to come at 10pm Friday night. I show up like a little puppy, tired and they did not offer the kitchen table or a tv tray. They offered to sign while sitting on the couch. That is when your notary log comes in. Nice, prissy daughter comes in, she's a real estate agent in another state and then nickels and dimes the hud, tells me that these papers look strange and why were there so many pages (she doesn't work in this state so what does she know). She read the package, page for page and word for word before she gave "permssion" for her parents to sign. I could tell her parents were upset with her but they didn't say a word.

I just grin and bear it. I called my good friend that asked me to do this signing, when I got out of there at midnight, and told him how nice the borrowers were but the daughter was a pain in my butt and I was wishing bad things on her.

You just have to grin and bear it because one day the customer is going to complain, and if you get too many of those complaints, you will be put to the back of the line on the title companies notary list. JMHO

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 9:34am
Msg #204270

One other thought. I did not tell them my time was valuable as the reason for needing the table. As the loan proceeded they agreed that the T.V. tray would not have worked. They were wanting to hurry and close because she needed to go and buy formula for the baby. She would have had to wait a lot longer had we had to shuffle 160 papers on a T.V. tray. Once again as notaries we have to weigh a lot of variables and make the best judgement to close the loan. We are there for the convenience of the borrower but I don't agree that they control the closing. This is a business and my time is valuable as I had another loan to close behind this one. This lady just did not want to clean the table off but later realized that I had made the correct decision to work off the table. And that is not factoring out the convenience to the borrower. The notary offers structure to the closing if possible.

Reply by LJ on 8/7/07 9:23am
Msg #204268

Sue, I have to disagree with you on that we are not a necessity. We ARE a necessity. Sometimes we are the only person that they see face to face. Their lender could be in one part of the country and the title is in a different part. The borrowers could be traveling hundreds of thousands of miles to the title company to close their loan if we didnt' come to them. Yes, they are paying us, but it is relatively cheap compare to what they could be paying if they had to travel to close the loan. In that sense, we are a convience to them plus a necessity. In most cases, we are a necessity or they couldn't get the loan without us coming to them.
Believe me, I have closed loans in borrowers homes in very awkward positions, just like others here have. I will do whatever it takes to get it done because their table had too much crap on it. I've come away with my knees and ankles stiff or my back hurting after an hour of bending weird. I've also taken control and asked to use a table because I know one is available. I've never had a problem asking to use a table when one is available. They understand when I pull out the docs and they see how many their are to sign. I've never said "my time is valuable" though. That is tacky. I put it on the borrowers and say it will be much easier for "them" if we use a table. Just my 2cents worth.

Reply by ZeeCA on 8/7/07 9:35am
Msg #204272

Re: T.V. tray totally agree LJ AND........

I always point out that it would be sooooo much easier on them and for them at the table. I would NEVER say MY time is valuable etc... that is insulting and makes them think at least 2 things... one theirs is not and two you are only out for the money and don't care about them or will give them adequate of your overly valuable time.....

we were friends by the end you defensively state... BIG DEAL the process would have gone smoother if you started and ended that way and all the way thru... and after you leave and she thinks about it she could go back to thinking what an arrogant piece of work you are

Reply by BlueWings on 8/7/07 10:13am
Msg #204283

I'm in Florida and I have had to sit through signings in which the borrower does not turn on the air conditioner or a fan...sometimes even with the windows closed to "keep it cooler"

I remember on a few weeks ago over 90 degrees outside and the borrowers did not care that I was in my "business attire" sweating like a dog for almost three hours and had to do it all with a good attitude.

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/7/07 9:34am
Msg #204271

I have closed many loans in the front seat of my car. I wish I had a tv tray. That would have been a god send. I even closed one on the hood of my car during the tail end of Katrina. How I did that I will never know. I didn't miss an int' or a signature. Hot dog!

Reply by jba/fl on 8/7/07 9:39am
Msg #204273

The person whos time is the most valuable here is the bor.

Many hoops have been jumped through, misplaced docs necessitating more faxed items by them, broken promises as to time things will be done, and perhaps we are even late due to docs not getting to us on time.
Like others, I would point out the volume of docs to be signed, but would suffer the coffee table, TV tray, whatever may be avail. to help them get this out of the way FOR THEM. That is customer service, and we prob. are the only ones they see face to face.
PS: Most of my bor. could be friends too when all is said and done,

Reply by spnotaryplus on 8/7/07 9:51am
Msg #204276

Re: I agree with JBA

We signed on to help the borrowers and perform closings in their homes or place of business. NO we didn't say the Coffee/T.V tray or on the hood of a car.

I have done closings like some of the posts mentioned here and I recently had one where the borrower wanted shoes removed at the door then I was directed to the backyard to sit by the pool in the Sun and waited 15 min until they could get themselves together. Yes they knew I was coming because I called a second time prior to leaving my home to confirm the appt.

We signed on a tray near the pool (it was Dry) still they appreciated my patience. Yes I became a little edgy about it but someimes we have to provide a higher level of customer service because we are the only ones they see at closing.

Reply by BetsyMI on 8/7/07 9:42am
Msg #204274

Oh come on people, a TV tray???? I've done it and it's a royal PITA.

Reply by PJM/MI on 8/7/07 9:53am
Msg #204277

The Customer is King

And those "customers" are the bo's and the companies that hire us.
I carry a legal size clipboard with me that has my assignments on it, but it has come in VERY handy to be used as a table top. And my hardbound journal.
It's too bad the loan officers don't tell the bo's we need a place to sign..that would solve alot of problems, huh?
I've had plenty of "green acres" signings with live barnyard animals inside. The scariest one was where the 3 goats resided inside. I was so scared they would want to eat the documents!
As for making "friends"..this is a business transaction. Professionalism, being polite & courteous is the name of the game.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 10:05am
Msg #204282

Once again, I did not say to the borrower that my time was valuable even though it is. The woman was mad before I ever got there as she did not want to sign the docs and may be the reason she did not clean off the table. I can assure you that it wasn't arrogance that was displayed but rather confident action that accessed the situation and this woman was happy and glad at the close of the loan and eager to go and get the baby some formula. I have borrowers that may start off irritated but by the end they are at ease. Arrogance does not produce that kind of results. Confidence and an array of people skills go hand in hand.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 10:18am
Msg #204284

If it had not been for my "Professionalism" this loan may not have closed as this non-borrowing spouse did not want to sign the loan. That cluttered table was defiance on her part. I'm sorry, if I have the choice between a T.V. tray and a table, I am going to tell the borrower that the table is the better option as they don't know how the process works. I do.
They don't and that is my job to inform them. If there is a mule or a car I'm going to choose the car as I know by experience that car will get a better result.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/7/07 12:24pm
Msg #204309

And how did you persuade the non-borrowing spouse to sign the loan? (I assume you meant just the "legals" - RTC, TIL, RTC etc)

I know here in Florida if a non-borrowing spouse does not want to sign the loan, unless the company instructs them to then I cannot insist on it. It is a legal document and to advise the spouse to sign the loan if they do not want to would be considered UPL here. (And I got that from the UPL counsel at the Florida Bar). The title company can tell them they need to sign the "legals" when they are non-borrowing. I, as a notary or signing agent, can not.

Reply by sue_pa on 8/7/07 10:18am
Msg #204285

I also don't want to close on a tv tray. Holding a stack of 150 pages, picking off the top one, turning it around, having it signed, putting it on the bottom of the stack on my lap, pulling off the next sheet, etc., is just asking for errors. "Hey, let me see that other sheet again." And I'm rooting from the bottom while trying not to drop the others. Granted, most of us have been in the homes where there is not one clean surface and no where to put anything should anyone want to clean the table off. But, in situations where their dining room table is set for company every day, etc., we go to the table. It's all in yuor attitude and the way you let them know. This is a business transaction and convenience for the customer also includes a perfectly returned package and that requires more than shuffling papers on your lap.

Last night I was in a very junky house, not to the piont of no surface, but well on it's way. She had cleaned off about 1 foot at the end of the dining room table - she had 3 chairs there that I don't even know how I'd have gotten my ample self squished in - she had a floor fan RIGHT there that would have blown each and every sheet of paper. I saw right outside the patio door a perfectly clean glass topped picnic table and suggested we go outside. They agreed and there was no problem. Sitting with my arms squished against my sides not being able to move is not part of 'convenience for the borrower.' A little common sense must come into play in these situations. If you're in one of those houses with no surfaces (including none for the people who carry around a folding table) we can just do our best and go home to our relatively clean houses and thank someone that we don't live that way.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/7/07 10:20am
Msg #204286

Tip to avoid problem. Target sells four seat picnic table..

for less tha $30. Light weight and folds up like a suitcase ,
Carry one in my trunk for these type occaisions.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/7/07 10:44am
Msg #204291

I only replied to this post to begin with because

the poster stated that she TOLD the borrower her time was valuable. I found that tacky, at best. Now with replies the story changes and more information is gathered, I haven't changed my opinion.

Doesn't matter if you've been doing this job 10 years or 10 days, everyone has a horror story and hopes "that'll never happen again". Would make a fantastic book, one I'd most likely buy!
However, if we know what makes us physically uncomfortable (I'm tall so coffee tables are a killer for me) we can adapt, we need to be flexible and we need to think 10 steps ahead. Bob's idea is grand and I'm going to give it some thought for next spring and summer. The point is I get maybe 1 out of 12 that give me nightmares.

And LJ, we ARE a convenience and NOT a necessity. Think about it, how do you think all those other loans in the past got closed? What do you think happens in an Attorney Only state? Trust me, with banks, finance companies and Title/Escrow offices on every corner loans will get closed with or without our "assistance".

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 10:54am
Msg #204293

Re: Tip to avoid problem. Target sells four seat picnic table..

Bob, why would you spend $30 when you have a roof to sign on or some other impractical surface to utilize just because one is afraid to ask the borrower to clean off the table when there is one? Frankly I don't get it. Every closing is different and the circumstances vary as to where the papers will be signed. Good people skills are reflected in the ability to respond without using inflammatory words as some of you do to get your point across.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/7/07 11:07am
Msg #204299

Snoop...please go back and read your original post

perhaps once you re-read it you'll see why some of us think you were a bit over the top. Don't take it personal, it's business.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 2:04pm
Msg #204329

Re: Snoop...please go back and read your original post

Yes Sue, I can see where my wording could be construed as if I had told the borrower that my time was too valuable. I put two thoughts into one sentence. I still don't back down from the idea that the notary is the professional and we are to size up the situation, act accordingly, without arrogance which I have never exibited. We are there to bring as much structure as possible in the various environments to make the loan occur. That could mean asking the borrower to wipe the food off the table without insulting their living habits. Do I go to the couch because I am too afraid to make this suggestion? Same thing here. I enjoy reading this forum but there are some that cannot post without using insulting language in order to get their point across. Thanks for the many that post in unthreateneing and professional attitudes.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 8/7/07 3:41pm
Msg #204349

Re: Tip to avoid problem. Target sells four seat picnic table..

I love the idea Bob. What is $30 unless someone is only charging $30 for a closing. I can make that back in one signing and it is very practical.

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/7/07 12:14pm
Msg #204307

Bob I think that the table is a great idea. Problem? Some of

us can't fit into the seats. Middle age spread and all that. LOL

Reply by Todd/OH on 8/7/07 10:54am
Msg #204294

I've done closings on the TV tray because it was the only clean surface. There wasn't any other table. I did a closing last night on a hospital tray. That's about the only flat surface in a hospital room.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 11:06am
Msg #204298

By the way Bob, that is an excellent idea if it will fit in any car. I was being facetious.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/7/07 11:32am
Msg #204301

Did a signing for a bedridden paraplegic not so long ago (why they didn't have him in his wheelchair is beyond me as they knew I was coming but I guess that's not my concern) - he signed on his stomach and NBS and I signed on the bed with only my journal to steady things - I WISH a t.v. tray had been offered!! Also signed another sitting on the floor around the coffee table because Mrs. was too ill to go to the table (oy my back!!)

Ya do what ya gotta do.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/7/07 11:48am
Msg #204302

those coffee tables are killers! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/7/07 12:11pm
Msg #204305

Re: LOL..my back and my knees were NOT happy campers!! n/m

Reply by jean/pa on 8/7/07 12:11pm
Msg #204306

funny, but I agree. I will sign wherever they want. About a month ago I went to do one at borrowers office. He was a chiropractor and our signing table was a chiropractors bed after about 6 signatures he gave me something sturdy to put under the docs, a manilla envelope of x-rays. Go figure

Reply by cntrlcalntry on 8/7/07 1:21pm
Msg #204318

Worst one this month, over 100 degress on a black leather

sofa in the borrowers DRIVEWAY! GHETTOFABULOUS!

Reply by jba/fl on 8/7/07 1:23pm
Msg #204319

Re: GHETTOFABULOUS! What a great word! Just for any

awkward signing situation, GHETTOFABULOUS! I can't quit laughing!

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 2:08pm
Msg #204332

Sue-Read under your 11:07 am post

A reply to your post in the event it gets overlooked.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/7/07 3:32pm
Msg #204344

Re: Sue-Read under your 11:07 am post

Gotcha...that's what I hate about "perceived attitudes", I thought I knew where you were actually going but where things wound up...ugh. We're all on the same page, truth be known I couldn't visualize you saying that to someone...glad you "straightened me out". I too think I'll steal the idea of "mentioning the table" on my confirmation call. See....all is not lost. Something good came of it...gotta love a forum.

Reply by Barb/MO on 8/7/07 2:18pm
Msg #204335

A clear table is one of the things I mention

when I call the borrowers to confirm the appointment. I really think that helps. Sometimes when we sit down, I sense it was cleared just for the signing either from what borrowers say or how it looks.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 2:27pm
Msg #204336

Re: A clear table is one of the things I mention

That is a great idea to give the borrower a heads up. Sometimes a table is not available but at least it gives the borrower a chance to consider a place to sign and make preparation before we get there. Thanks for the tip!

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 8/7/07 2:34pm
Msg #204337

Did you ever think it was a "power" thing

I remember one house I went to and started towards the table in the kitchen to be stopped by Mrs because she'd just polished that table (wood) and didn't want any finger prints on it. We had to sit on very high bar stools at the kitchen counter (I'm only 5 foot tall so it is a pain for me to try and position myself on those stools, plus no back rest). In the mean time she was running hither and yon and taking all kinds of phone calls about an auction that she'd chaired the night before. Was going on and on to me about all the work she had to do to notify absentee bidders, arrange pickups, etc (she did not know that I had been in the auction business for 27 years!). It was all a power trip for her on how important she was and that I was there just to do her bidding. Her husband was very nice and he couldn't understand why we weren't at the table. I did it and I left, pittying him because this is his life daily and I only had to bear it for about 45 min. (would have taken less than 30 - HELOC, if she'd tended to business). Many times I've gone in and the dining room table is "set" and they don't like clearing it off, but always comment that it would have been more difficult if we'd try to sign other places. I too have signed on the hood of my car at a construction site, in hospital rooms, for handicapped people and bed ridden people, but when a perfectly good table and chair are available I'll use them. Again, you have to asses the situation in the first few seconds to determine how you want handle it. Some you couch it in the form of suggesions, some in the form of a question and some very assertively.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 8/7/07 3:34pm
Msg #204345

Re: Did you ever think it was a "power" thing

I have one more comment to PJM/MI about this being a business transaction, not about making friends. I guess I take this to another level being the gregarious person that I am. That is why my borrower might wind up at my house being served a fine meal and an opportunity to get to know other people not just us 4 and no more. I have asked a couple to dinner I met in a closing because I enjoy diversity. And others will follow. Besides being professional, my closings always end with that possibility for new friends. Maybe you are missing out on something by being so "professional". I am enriching my life with new people and love it!

Reply by JanetLA on 8/7/07 3:41pm
Msg #204350

Signing on a riverboat...

I had one that the guy wanted me to ride in a small boat to the tugboat that he was working on...on the Mississippi River... I asked in the most polite way if he could possibly ride in the small boat to the levee so that we could sign there.... A tv tray would have been a step up, way up rather than the banks of the Mississippi River. Best of luck to you all this month

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/7/07 5:15pm
Msg #204375

Did you drive your chevy to the levee and was it dry??? n/m