Posted by bfd110_IN on 8/28/07 7:15am
Msg #208077

Vent time on a notary (kinda long)

I showed up to buy a small house yesterday. The notary there recognizes me and knows that I do closings also. I must say he did look snazzy in his UPS work attire. We were closing in a realtor's office so I would have thought he would have at least changed shirts.

Once my wife showed up, we started the signing. He never went over anything with my wife ( she didnt know the docs from adam) I had to go over each document with her. I had also noticed that all docs that had to be notarized had already been notarized. Kick in the butt part is that they were for the wrong county (property and where the closing took place were in 2 different counties). I kept my mouth shut though this all. Also in Indiana we have a state sales disclosure that has to be filed on all purchases ( I was even charged 20.00 for the filling of this) I never signed it because it wasn't provided to me. So I know the title company will be using the errors and ommissions to send it to me to have signed now.

Now he made a nice $150.00 for literally 15 minutes worth of work on a cash purchase that I had to go over with my wife on. I would think the title company would want more for their money.

Needless to say MY WIFE WAS NOT HAPPY when we walked out of there.

Reply by WDMD on 8/28/07 7:23am
Msg #208078

" I had also noticed that all docs that had to be notarized had already been notarized."

If I get the doc's early enough I fill out my certificates ahead of time, then just sign and stamp after the borrowers sign.

Reply by bfd110_IN on 8/28/07 7:26am
Msg #208079

I never said there was anything wrong with that. But do you correct the county that you are signing in or do you leave the incorrect one there?

Reply by slknotary on 8/28/07 8:50am
Msg #208093

When I bought my house, the notary lived in a different county than I did. He put in his county instead of mine. When I called him on it, he said that is the way he does it. The purchase still went through fortunately. But I was taught that you put in the county where your feet are (so to speak).

I assume your notary thought you would explain everything to your wife since you're familiar. Totally unprofessional in my opinion.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 8/28/07 8:57am
Msg #208096

*He never went over anything with my wife ( she didnt know the docs from adam) I had to go over each document with her.*

You went over each doc with your wife at the table, or after you got home? Why didn't she speak up? What was the realtor doing?

*I had also noticed that all docs that had to be notarized had already been notarized. Kick in the butt part is that they were for the wrong county (property and where the closing took place were in 2 different counties). I kept my mouth shut though this all.*

You allowed the signing to continue knowing the venues were incorrect and the docs were already notarized?--and what is worse, you kept your mouth shut!

A cash purchase signing that *you* allowed to be completed in 15 minutes -- and you've got issues with the notary ??

Reply by bfd110_IN on 8/28/07 9:08am
Msg #208101

normally a cash purchase takes 15 minutes on a buyer side only. 25 to 30 pages and yes I told my wife at the table what the documents were. I shouldn't have had too. With all my investors when I do cash closings, I still go over the docs with or without the spouse there. I dont care if you have bought 100 homes I restate what the docs are.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 8/28/07 9:17am
Msg #208105

Re: As the buyers, you were sitting on the opposite side of

the table and it was not your place to go over the docs with your wife at the signing table. If your wife didn't understand, it was HER place to speak up and ask for clarification. Clarification is a broad word when it comes to the notary and UPL, so that is where the realtor should have come into the picture. IT WAS NOT *YOUR* PLACE and you should not have been wearing your notary signing cap.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 8/28/07 9:11am
Msg #208103

You owe it to the profession to complain, loudly!

If you let that jerk slide you will be doing a disservice to all of us who do a decent job.

Report everything --- EVERYTHING --- to the firm / person who hired the substandard Notary.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/28/07 9:16am
Msg #208104

There is a fine line when dealing with industry savvy brws

But sometimes right off the bat, they tell me they are aware of everything, and just want to sign.
I always start off by doing my job as if they were a lay person to the industry, and let them direct me as to how much they want to hear from me about the docs.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/28/07 9:21am
Msg #208106

If it were me...

I would have made him earn his money by explaining the docs to both of us. I also would have asked him why the notary certs were filled in before our appt. I would NOT have kept my mouth shut over a doc that was missing, this is my transaction and I want it done correctly, the first time. Instead of (intensionally) upsetting my spouse, I would have called the notary to the mat and we would have walked out of there satisfied. If he got $150. to close MY loan, he would have earned it!

Reply by WDMD on 8/28/07 9:42am
Msg #208114

"If he got $150. to close MY loan, he would have earned it!"

LOL, I've also had a few borrowers who stated since I was making so much on the signing they were going to make me earn it. They start doing everything but sign the doc's. Real aggravating.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 8/28/07 10:15am
Msg #208132

I would have called him on all you issues. If a sales disclosure was required I would ask where it was. As to the notary section, I pre-fill the date, names, CORRECT county, etc. and sign & stamp after it is signed. Did you get the Indiana Property Tax Benefits form (on Yellow or Gold Paper). If not he could be fined up to $25,000. As for the explanation of documents...after you took the time to explain a doc to your wife you would think he would get the message...he should have explained the docs.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/28/07 10:29am
Msg #208142

I don't know what an Indiana sales disclosure is, but

was it his responsibility to produce it? Seems to me if you can't help a client choose between an acknowledgement or jurat, you sure can't come up with one of these forms. As well how does one get fined $25,000 for not having the Indiana property tax benefits form? Again he came he presented what was given to him by the TC and you guys closed. If you wanted a greater explanation, why didn't you stop and say, "can we slow down and take a moment to explain this to her and I"?

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/28/07 10:40am
Msg #208149

LOL WD

Not that I'm a pita. but I have earned my money on occasion.
Just got a Hilton Grand Vacations Club signing the other day, 40 pages, an hour and a half later, complete with Excedrin 96...
The wife decided to be 'absent' during the sales pitch and took it out on me. Finally, she magically found her docs and read every single @#%& peice of paper and had her husband ready to choke her.
Not to mention, it was a 1.5 rt and I was paid handsomely to call their office about 53 times that nite.

And they say, don't eat before you sleep for nightmares?!?!?

Reply by WDMD on 8/28/07 11:30am
Msg #208172

Re: LOL WD

Guess we gotta take the good with the bad. Overall most borrowers are pretty decent.

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/28/07 6:48pm
Msg #208252

"I would have made him earn his money by explaining the docs to both of us."

What a ridiculous statement. We earn our money by driving to the signing and getting everything signed. Not every signing has to follow the exact same routine.

If I'm dealing with somebody who obviously is familiar with loan docs, I'm not going to waste their time treating them as though they're ignorant. And if I were signing loan docs, I wouldn't want to sit there and listen to everything explained to me (although that might be amusing, depending on the notary).

Reply by BetsyMI on 8/28/07 10:30am
Msg #208143

I just wondered about how the scenario got started with you explaining to your wife instead of the notary explaining to both....if you took right over to start explaining the first form to your wife, maybe the notary took his clue from that...or knowing you were also a loan signing agent may have also made him step back a bit. Did he take charge at all? Did you just step up and start explaining? Someone had to be saying something when the first form came up...

As far as the Indiana property form, why was it his responsibility to make sure it was there. As you know, we take whatever forms we get from a hiring authority and get it all signed. Sure, if the mortgage, note, til or RTC are missing I would call the title company. But I think it's the TC's responsibility to make sure the state sales disclosure was in the packet. I think someone later on posted that 'he could get sued'...why would the notary get sued if the form isn't sent to him? We are only there to notarize signatures, not make sure every form is present.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 8/28/07 10:37am
Msg #208145

Re: two sides to every story ...

call me the skeptic , but I would love to hear the side of Mr. UPS Notary.

There is a reason we are not allowed to act as our own notary when signing legal/financial docs. As I've already written, your notary signing cap should have been checked at the door -- it should never have left your house.

Attorneys and doctors are the worst clients and patients when it comes to their own legal issues/medical care, and a notary is right up there with them when it comes to their own documents. I don't know if you "took charge" of the signing or not, but if I would have been the signing agent and you had, I would have stopped the signing, gathered up the documents, pens, notary stamp, etc. and left -- advising the hiring party, TC, etc. of the situation.

Reply by Todd/OH on 8/28/07 10:48am
Msg #208155

Gotta agree with Ernest - -

You should call whoever hired him. He's making a fellow notary like you look bad if you allow it. I would have also mentioned the wrong county. I get questions like that from borrowers who seem to know nothing.

Reply by Terri_CA on 8/28/07 10:51am
Msg #208157

In CA the Notary Handbook clearly states the notary certificate is to be completed at the time the notary signature and seal are affixed. So, I do not complete any part of the certificate prior to going to any appointment.

I realize that Indiana may have different requirements, but I'm just stating this for California Notaries reading this thread.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by janCA on 8/28/07 11:27am
Msg #208170

Depends on how you interpret this section of handbook

What the handbook says, and I quote, "The certificate of acknowledgement must be completely filled out at the time the notary public's signature and seal are affixed."

I don't interpret it to say that you can't fill in state, county, etc. beforehand. If I have the time before a signing, especially, if there are many notarizations, I will go through and fill in blanks, etc, but just not sign or stamp.

Reply by Barb/MO on 8/28/07 8:54pm
Msg #208279

Though not a CA NP, I agree with Jan's interpretation

It can just as well mean that "[t]he certificate ... >>must have been<< filled out at the time the notary public's signature and seal are affixed," not that those must be contemporaneous events. Characteristic of the best-prepared document sets I receive is that the certificates are fully (and correctly) completed with the venue, names of borrowers, date, etc. In the past, when I and others, including attorneys, prepared the certificates in docs to be notarized, we commonly completed as much of the certificates as possible. That practice, plus my quick skimming of the notary statutes and handbook lead to believe that precompletion of the blanks is not in violation of the statutes, at least in MO.

I, too, complete those blanks when I have time, but I never, ever sign and stamp until after the docs are signed. I believe that helps streamline the signing process. It also means fewer mistakes by me at the time of signing. I don't believe it costs me more time to do so.

Reply by Sherri_IN on 8/28/07 3:33pm
Msg #208215

Your whole closing raises lots of questions. Did the closer have a Title Producers License? Even though this was a Cash closing with no lender involved there was still Title Insurance being issued on the transactions so he must be licensed. Was the Title Company an Indiana company or out of state? It is surprising how many companies do business in Indiana and don't know that they have to have a Sales Disclosure and it must be completed and signed by the buyer or the deed to you will not record. As for the Indiana Proeprty Tax benefits form the statue is that the person conducting the closing must insure that the buyer or borrower recieves the form on Gold or Yellow paper and the buyer or Borrower needs to sign that they did recieve it. The fine is 25.00 for not providing it.