Posted by Leon_CO on 12/3/07 11:47pm
Msg #224116

Being fair with fees

I had a closing today at 1:30. The husband was a non-borrowing spouse and had to sign some of the documents. But he wasn't there. He's a truck driver. I told the borrower that I'm willing to come back out later in the evening. I called the signing company and told them the same. The guy said he would pay me a trip fee of $25. I was sitll with the borrower and didn't want to discuss money in front of her. I simply told him that it wasn't enough. I told him I'll call the company later to discuss it.

When I got back to my office I called the company. This time I spoke with a lady. I told her the situation. She said she'll send me another confirmation for a fee of $20 to cover the second trip.

Keep in mind that this is basically the same as a split signing. If you had to hire another notary, you would have to pay that notary a full fee. That is how I reasoned with the lady on the phone. I also told her that I'm sacrificing my evening to get this closing done, and that I could make $200 if someone else called me to do a closing. She sent me another confirmation for a full fee (double what I was supposed to be paid for the first trip). I actually did get a call to do a purchase transaction at 5:30. I had enough time to complete it before the borrower's husband got home. I went back out at 8:30 to get his signatures.

Paying me a full fee for the second trip was the fair thing to do, in my opinion. The main thing is that, if you can justify the fee you request, you should receive it. Don't become outraged. Don't get belligerent. Keep a cool head. Simply negotiate.

Good luck.

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/4/07 12:00am
Msg #224119

Good for you for being able to negotiate a full fee for the second trip. Honestly, I'm shocked that they went for it.

I don't think the second trip really warrants a full fee as it should take MUCH less time to have the non borrowing spouse sign the few docs they have to. But, as you've shown, there sure isn't any harm in making the effort and if they're willing to go for it, heck yeah, take it!

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/4/07 5:40am
Msg #224126

I'm shocked as well - but what remains to be seen is if you won the battle but lost the war. Getting 3 pages signed is just not the same as printing and presenting an entire pkg.

Reply by Leon_CO on 12/4/07 7:30am
Msg #224130

Renee, I seriously wonder sometimes if you read before you post. I did do the entire signing -- for the wife's documents. I made a second trip to get the husband to sign his documents.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/4/07 8:51am
Msg #224153

I understood perfectly, Leon. =) If my response didn't make that clear, I'm sorry.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/4/07 7:47am
Msg #224134

Re: Respectfully disagree..

"Keep in mind that this is basically the same as a split signing"

No it's not - you're getting, what...5 documents signed? You're not reviewing a complete package with the NOBS...not at all like a split signing...just a second trip and a few extra minutes at the table. I agree $20 or $25 was on the low side but, if it were me, I'd have requested an additional 50% of the full fee to go back and get the husband's signatures.

IMHO you were very lucky to get someone to agree to pay a second full fee...now, I hope you're lucky enough to actually be paid that amount...Good Luck!!

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 12/4/07 7:58am
Msg #224138

Re: Respectfully disagree..

CW/FSL non-borrowing spouse docs, for example, are considerably more than 5 pages. It amounts to half the package (including title docs). Also keep in mind that the NBS has the right to understand all the documents, not just the ones they must sign, since they are encumbering property to which they hold title.

Speaking for myself only, I give a $25 reduction for the split.
My .02

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/4/07 8:09am
Msg #224139

Re: Respectfully disagree..

True Lisa (but I said 5 documents..not 5 pages) - I did forget to account for the title docs though...He didn't say who the Lender was (CW or otherwise) but still...I, personally, don't think I wouldn have commanded a full second fee unless I had to do the whole package again.and had significant travel...again MHO.

Reply by Leon_CO on 12/4/07 8:11am
Msg #224140

Re: Respectfully disagree..

Lisa, I appreciate your input and thoughtfulness.

Yes, this was a CW loan. The NBS had considerably more than "3 pages" to sign. And as you say, there is more to it than just 'point and sign'.

Both of them were extremely grateful that I came back out.

Perhaps a discount was in order, but I felt it was worth a full fee.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 12/4/07 8:14am
Msg #224143

Re: Respectfully disagree..

The CW example was just a guess (90% of my work is CW & CW/FSL).
As for the discount I offer, it's all relative. I cover a county that is 2025 sq. miles (est) and would certainly adjust my fee for travel/time if the second signing were not within a reasonable distance.

Reply by Leon_CO on 12/4/07 8:22am
Msg #224145

Re: Respectfully disagree..

Lisa, good guess. And yes, it was a bit farther than simply driving around the block.

I take many things into account when I put a price on my services. One of the most important things is the fact that, that is exactly how I perceive it -- service.

And I think that's what all NSAs should keep in mind. We provide a service. A valuable service. And if you sell your services cheap, you do a dis-service to all other NSAs.

We are not going to make progress as a profession by allowing people to think that what we do is worth $20.

Just my 2 cents.

Reply by Lora/FL on 12/4/07 9:38am
Msg #224168

Re: Respectfully disagree..

Well, Leon, your 2 cents is worth's its weight in gold, if you ask me. I absolutely agree, many things have to be taken into consideration. If you had gotten the call for a non-borrowing spouse but still had to print the pkg. and travel to the borrower's home for signatures, I'm sure the fee would have been the full fee as well. Granted, that wasn't the case but it would be the same if they had to call another notary to go to the home.
We sometimes make quick decisions and do not think about the "bigger picture". When things are slow, we may decide to do things we wouldn't normally do ( ie accept less fees) but did our expenses change? Nope, usually not. Yes, there is definitely a price on service and convenience.
"We are not going to make progress as a profession by allowing people to think what we do is worth $20".....or $40...or $60.....(in my opinion)
If the uniform closing instructions are adopted and commence in 2008, our function and "job description" WILL change.

Reply by KJ/IA on 12/4/07 9:40am
Msg #224169

Why wouldn't you wait till both signers were there?

When I confirm closing with the borrower(s), I always ask them if it is just them, or do they have a spouse. The title company or signing service may not know if there is a spouse (non Borrower), but I do my best to find out myself. I would never go out, knowing I would have to go again & not be paid. If I did a real split signing, the fee would be double, unless I didn't have far to travel.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 12/4/07 11:12am
Msg #224182

I agree with you KJ

Because like in one of the other posts, you usually cannot just go over the few docs that the NOBS has to sign.... they have a right to have all docs explained to them. I would say we will do it all at one time when both are present. Because I can tell you that most if not all the companies I work with will not pay a full fee for the second trip, and would appreicate me more for telling the borrowers that they both must be present, and we reschedule the time to make that happen.

I am not in the business to do things for free, don't get me wrong, but you have to use some common sense, and say, if you both aren't able to be there at the scheduled time, what time will you be, we will make this happen then.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 12/4/07 11:28am
Msg #224187

Re: Why wouldn't you wait till both signers were there?

It’s good you did get your fee as requested, but will you get calls back for more signings from them?
Will you be put on the bottom of the list? Or did they appreciate your negotiations.

considering you were holding the docs , not meeting your fee would make it very hard to get this completed by someone else.
There are times I agree to meet a fee, and make a notation for the future signings that come up.
There is a signing agent in Northern California who is very good but I will never call him again because of a fee he forced on me during a month end. He was assigned a 1st and 2nd, I send all docs to him, but as it was month end he was overwelmed and forgot to print the 2nd set. So when I asked him to go back, he said he wouldnt do it for less than $100.00 more.
It was his error, but in order to get the docs signed and returned I had to pay him $100.00. I was stuck and made the choice to agree. But I will not call him again.

Reply by docs1954CA on 12/4/07 11:54am
Msg #224197

I've made a notation on you too

This wasn't me, but I must say you come on this board acting like you're one of the better SS's out there, but you aren't. My one, and last call from you came at the end of the month earlier in the year. We agreed upon a fee for one loan, e-docs. I waited a long time for the docs, calling several times for a update.I was told every time, "it will be in the next 5 min". After an hour, I get the docs only to discover it's 2 loans.I call to discuss the fee agreement, and I'm told "you agreed to that fee".I explain the fee was based on one loan, not 2. I request a reasonable increase, " we'll have to get approval and call you back" I give you 5 min, as I have alot going on.The return call is for an additional $ 25.00..."We'll pay for the print only, we aren't making much on this, is that okay"? No...goodbye and good luck.I don't even answer when you call me now.

Reply by Leon_CO on 12/4/07 12:04pm
Msg #224200

Re: I've made a notation on you too

Are you sure you posted this to the right thread?

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/4/07 12:07pm
Msg #224202

Re: I've made a notation on you too

it's a response to a post by a signing service.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 12/4/07 12:15pm
Msg #224207

Re: I've made a notation on you too

Never ever would this of happened
We always pay more for a 1st and 2nd than a 1st.
ALWAYS.
You are incorrect


You are correct you are not the signing agent I was mentioning. It does not matter who it was, it was just another perspective

Reply by docs1954CA on 12/4/07 12:19pm
Msg #224208

Don't lie.....

We agreed upon $ 100.00 for the single, too low, but it was close.$ 25.00 more for the 2nd...I'm lying? Nope....

Reply by Leon_CO on 12/4/07 11:56am
Msg #224198

Re: Why wouldn't you wait till both signers were there?

There was a lot to this signing that I didn't mention. I would have to write a small book to get in every important detail.

The documents were sent to the borrower. So I didn't have a chance to see them beforehand.

The signing confirmation sheet listed only 1 borrower -- MRS. Borrower. The space under 'Co-Borrower' was blank.

Someone obviously knew that the husband needed to sign some of the documents because his name was typed on some of them. They left it off on the RTC, TIL, and Itemization. I had him sign them and the copies of the RTC in the borrower's copies.

SoCal, I think this company will use me again, because I have helped them out in some tight spots in the past. They know that they can count on me to not drop the ball, and that I'll help them get the loans closed in the future.

And if the company asked the borrowers if they would want to have me do their closing in the future, I'm sure the borrowers would say yes. Each of them was profusely grateful.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 12/4/07 12:22pm
Msg #224209

Re: Why wouldn't you wait till both signers were there?

Leon that is fantastic, and Im glad it worked. It always feels so good when something like this works out for everyone.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/5/07 8:46pm
Msg #224549

Re: Why wouldn't you wait till both signers were there?

I agree. That's part of my routine when I confirm an appointment, although I word it differently for CA. Can't tell you how many times this has brought up issues and saved some headaches. I may not get the second fee, but my clients appreciate it.