Posted by Elizabeth Soliday on 12/10/07 9:09pm
Msg #225409

Cancellitis

I'm really getting sick of my cancellation fees being either completely ignored or bypassed by some stipulation that they "only pay $XX for cancellations". It seems like I am getting a lot more cancellations lately and I'm worried they're not paying for themselves at all. I think there should be some kind of STANDARD that is FAIR that we can stick to for cancellation fees. What do you think? What right does a company I've never worked for before (and have no contract with) have to tell me they only pay $40 for cancellations when the job was 1/2 hour away. I am just sick of fighting for my pay on this issue and losing the dang phone numbers to who owes me.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/10/07 10:02pm
Msg #225411

Here's the solution....

Don't accept the job unless it is clear that the company will accept what you CHARGE for a cancellation fee. That way, if they don't accept up front, then you don't have to leave your living room.

Don't settle for what they "pay"....you TELL them what you CHARGE.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/11/07 7:37am
Msg #225452

... I think there should be some kind of STANDARD that is FAIR that we can stick to for cancellation fees...

Where do you guys come up with this stuff. There are people who work for bare minimum in this business and others who, for the exact same work, earn 4x that fee. How do you think the word 'standard' would ever come into play and why do you think anyone should agree to 'standards' set by others. SET YOUR OWN.

Examples - one of my best all time clients receives rather nasty comments on this board every so often - the reason is they won't pay if the loan doesn't fund. I have made WELL over $100,000 from this client and lost perhaps $2000 to $5000 for no funds/signs. Seems with this particular client, I've done quite well. Another example - I met another notary in my area who gets a lot of work from one particular signing service. I'm not sure but I believe she earns $75 per order (if it's actually $45 or $125 the actual number doesn't matter in this situation). I earn $175 per order because I get work from their title company direct. I receive 3 or 4 orders a year (I believe only 2 this year). She receives steady work weekly. Who is wrong here? Neither of us - we do what works best for our situations.

You've got your 'standards' I've got mine and they sure don't appear to mesh. I don't like no pay or reduced pay either but the bottom line numbers make sense for me because of the volume of work I do. If someone plays or dabbles in ths business for minimum fee to earn a few extra dollars, they are concerned on each and every order. Because of the type business we are in and because we all 'basically' do the same thing around the country (different physical locations and challenges, different costs of living, etc) everyone needs to take care of themselves.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/11/07 9:23am
Msg #225463

This might be your best yet, Sue.

You're on my list of admirable folks in this industry - I agree with just about everything you write, and that's certainly not a criteria for being admirable. You just have such a solid comprehension of the Whole Big Picture and I'm grateful for whatever influence your words might have on those who haven't arrived there yet.

It's a business, we are business owners, we use business practices and we make business decisions - mostly all by our little selves, because mostly we're all by our little selves.

I don't see these types of business 'issues' (or non-issues, depending) as part/parcel with wanting to get some kind of a standard established on what, exactly, this business IS - and what might qualify someone to perform it. REGARDLESS, it will always be a business - and businesses need solid business practices and astute business management.

Reply by SReis on 12/11/07 10:46am
Msg #225482

Re: This might be your best yet, Sue.

I agree Renee but I cannot help but disagree re: Sue's position re: losses on loans that do not fund. I understand the overall money perspective but sometimes its not all about the all mighty dollar. It just doesn't seem "right" for us to preform our contractual obligation & not get paid due to something totally out of our control. I know I have missed out on jobs due to this stance but I can say that I feel better for it.

I agree that what might work for one may not work for all but if everyone agreed on basic principles (ie: you do the job, you get paid for it), then "our" overall business would be better for it.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/11/07 12:16pm
Msg #225490

Re: This might be your best yet, Sue.

...but sometimes its not all about the all mighty dollar. ..


that's why WE will never all come to an agreement on MANY parts of this business and why it drives me so crazy when I see people thinking we are all the same with what we want and expect from our jobs. I seem to recall recently you stated you were glad you didn't need this income as your husband was the primary provider. In my case, that's not the way it works. This is my one and only job and I am the only person in my household (not counting kids who keep returning with their hands out !!). If I don't bring the $$$ in the door, none comes in from any other source. For me, my BUSINESS is about the almighty dollar because I do have a BUSINESS. If it wasn't I would go to work 9 to 5. There are VERY few BUSINESSES that aren't about making money. I am not putting anyone down specifically by saying one of our biggest problems as 'signing agents' are those who don't do this full time and have no idea what it's like to have to make enough money to live on, pay for health care, retirement, profit (because all BUSINESSES should earn one), no vacation or sick pay, no unemployment coverage should some of the IDIOTS I see cause us all to lose our jobs, etc.

If we were to have 'standards', I'd want everyone to never accept less than $150. When you earn that much per order consistently, the very few no signs don't matter as much, nor do the fax backs, additional docs, etc. I live in the real world and there will NEVER be agreement as to the way we run our own businesses so we all have to adjust to what business we have and be willing to continually adjust as this job changes (as it has in MANY different ways throughout the past decade).

Reply by SReis on 12/11/07 2:10pm
Msg #225506

Re: This might be your best yet, Sue.

Just for the record, I do NOT do this part time. This is my one and only job. And like you, I am paying my own health ins, bus costs, student loans, etc. I do have another income coming in but it alone does not pay the bills. I also RELY on this income to make my monthly bills & that is why I do not work for free. I can tell you that I make more than what you have stated per signing & I still have a serious problem w/not getting paid for no-funds.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/11/07 5:34pm
Msg #225539

Re: This might be your best yet, Sue.

<< t just doesn't seem "right" for us to preform our contractual obligation & not get paid due to something totally out of our control. I know I have missed out on jobs due to this stance but I can say that I feel better for it. >>

Business 101 - evaluate risk vs reward when making decisions. A policy of not accepting "no fund/no pay" jobs doesn't make sense, since the risk of that happening is low (unless you're dealing with a sleazebag company, in which case you're probably having problems getting paid for the ones that DID fund, too).

It's no fun taking a hit when the loan didn't fund because of something you had no control over, but how often does that happen? Given 50 jobs that are "no fund/no pay", which is better for your business - getting 100% of the 49 that did fund, or 0% of the 50 you rejected?

Reply by sue_pa on 12/11/07 12:29pm
Msg #225493

Re: This might be your best yet, Sue.

Thanks Renee. As many know, some of these posts just drive me through the roof - especially the ones that have to do with money. Charge enough and work for clients that pay and the majority of money complaints will disappear. One of the things you don't see me complain about here are my fees because I charge a fair fee for a good job. I truly don't work in the $45/$50 offer world and it is completely foreign to me. If others don't like that world or the hand holding world or the payment in 90 days world, they should leave it and find clients (there are plenty out there) that are willing to pay and pay well for a job well done. You have to look for and ask for the work. It no longer flows in as it used to.

I am odd man out on low fees for new people. I actually think if you enter this job and don't know what you're doing (and all that's necessary is to read a month's worth of posts here to see there are plenty) you should be down on your knees thanking someone for giving you $45 or $50 to learn on the job and play with a stranger's financial life.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT the things you don't like.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/11/07 12:31pm
Msg #225494

Whoo Hoo, Sue!

On a roll today, aren't we? Go get 'em!

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/11/07 12:51pm
Msg #225496

Re: This might be your best yet, Sue.

"Thanks Renee. As many know, some of these posts just drive me through the roof - especially the ones that have to do with money."

But they do make it much easier to tell who the serious businesspeople are and who the amateurs are. Every business has to deal with loss in some form or another. Nobody likes it, but it's a reality.

One of my best clients only pays $35 for a no sign, plus $25 for edocs if applicable. Is it annoying as hell to have driven 45 minutes and spent 30-60 minutes with someone only to have them not sign and know I'm only getting $35 for my time? Of course. But I'd rather lose the occasional 40 or 50 bucks than give up the $2000+ a month I've gotten from them on a regular basis for 4 years. That is called a no-brainer in my book.