Posted by Kat_TX on 12/19/07 10:32pm
Msg #226934

DocSigningPros????

Does anyone have any information about this agency???

I've searched, and can't locate anything. Specifically, if anyone has done a signing with them, I desperately need their shipping address (for FedEx packages).

Stupid me, I took a signing from these folks on Monday. Signing was slated for yesterday between 4 and 5pm. It SHOULD have been a simple refi. No such luck. I get strung along yesterday until late in the afternoon until finally it gets moved to today. I wake up this morning and find that it's no longer a refi, it's now a Countrywide 1st and 2nd. Say what?

I get the 1st almost immediately, tell them that I'll be adjusting my rate, because I agreed to a simple refi (did I mention that this signing is an hour out from me??) and tell the contact person that I'll requote once I have the info for the 2nd.

2nd arrives, they argue about my fee, I tell them they're welcome to find someone else.

I get out there after printing and the gent's name is wrong on more than half of the 1st, and his SSN is wrong on BOTH packages. Also, in with the stuff they snuck over with the packages is a list of about 30 pages of faxbacks.

I realized as I was printing that I didn't have return shipping information. No address (none in their signature line either nor on their website www.docsigningpros.com, nothing on the WHOIS for their site either, it only shows the hosting company's address), no account number for FedEx/UPS, nothing. I had emailed my contact requesting the shipping info and I get the following back:

Hi Kat,

Upon completion of signing, please fax the requested documents on the Notary Instructions to: 818-827-3336 for Lender approval. Once approved, I will email shipping instructions to you. Docs will be shipped out via Fed Ex Standard Overnight.

If you have any questions, please call our office at 877-330-1174.

Carol Ventura
Doc Signing Pros Mobile Notary, LLC
Phone: 877-330-1174
Fax: 818-827-3336
www.docsigningpros.com

Uh no. I didn't agree to fax backs, I DID ask if there was anything else I needed to know.

I DO NOT agree with them holding the loan package in essence hostage like this (I've done SEVERAL Countrywide loans and have NEVER had them stipulate fax-backs for approvals). Basically, I've replied with that and demanded that they send the information for shipping or I'll be shipping to their offices instead. My only other alternative is to drive back out and hand the borrower their package.

Any other suggestions??

Kat

Reply by desktopfull on 12/20/07 12:31am
Msg #226942

I've done 3 countrywide packages lately (not for this company) and suddenly Countrywide is requiring fax backs because of the SA's errors they are receiving. They are trying to cut down on Fed ex charges of having to returning docs to notary to be fixed. By faxing they check for errors and have them fixed before docs are shipped. Many have been ignoreing the fax request and shipped docs anyway, so I guess now they are withholding shipping info until their instructions are followed. It's an 800 # your faxing to so there's no cost to you, just some of your time to pull the docs and scan. Granted this company should have informed you ahead of time. Next time your dealing with a new company look through the packages for additional instructions before you print and if you find something you don't like you can contact the company about it beforehand. For right now, I suggest that you fax over the docs they want and wait for the shipping info.

Reply by SReis on 12/20/07 7:49am
Msg #226964

Start Faxing!!!

The only Countrywide Loans I deal w/that req faxbacks are Full Spectrum Loans. But, even so, just fax back & chalk it up to experience. Desktop was right, they should have told you but they didn't. I don't charge any add fees for faxbacks, unless they are very large and although 30 pgs is big its not that bad esp. to a toll free number.

Reply by ssqu/ky on 12/20/07 8:32am
Msg #226974

Re: Start Faxing!!!

I think the fax back was not the problem for desktopfull.... it's the drive back to the office then ANOTHER trip to town to drop the doc's. It does cost $$$ for gas to drive an additional 25 miles each way (in my case) to drop doc's.

Reply by SReis on 12/20/07 8:36am
Msg #226975

Re: Start Faxing!!!

It actually was Kat from TX that had the issue but you do make a good point. I am lucky enough to be 2 mins away from a Fed-Ex drop box so I never really considered it. Good Point!

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 8:50am
Msg #226980

Re: Start Faxing!!!

Yep, it was me. And DEFINITELY the running back and forth is a HUGE PITA especially when one specifically asks about fax-backs on an assignment before even accepting. If you can't tell, I hate fax-backs.

Reply by SReis on 12/20/07 9:09am
Msg #226985

I agree. Faxbacks are the worst!!! n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 12/20/07 9:06am
Msg #226984

Re: Me too!

I also have my office in my home. I think under your circumstances I would call for the pickup. That's why I suggested looking at the docs for further instructions before printing, then if you have an issue with anything you can contact the company for additional fees or clarifcation and your just out your time and no supplies. I don't even print the conformations anymore until I get the docs. I can't count the number of times the lender couldn't get the docs ready that day and postponed to another day, meaning they send another conformation. That's 1 to 3 pages of paper and toner saved.

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 8:44am
Msg #226979

Unfortunately, it's not an 800# and since the phone service sucks in my area (as does cell at my house), in order to be sure that the fax transmission goes through the first time, I send from the biz center in town. Which is why I charge in the first place.

Bit of backstory here.... loan should have been a refi, became a 1st/2nd at the 11th hour. Signing co didn't want to increase fee, I was basically pulling teeth to get -any- info. Took TWO DAYS to get the correct phone number for the borrowers. This has been a disaster from the get-go. I should have walked, but didn't. Lesson learned. The fax-backs are approximately 30pps -each-.

While I would understand if a "You agree to accept responsibility for re-shipping due to your error" clause had been included, it was not. If a notary asks for the missing (should have been there in the first place) shipping info, cough it up.

At the time of printing, I admit I was in a rush and just wanted to make the appointment (2nd had FINALLY arrived) so that I wouldn't be dodging deer on backroads at 10pm. Faxbacks were not disclosed in advance and I'll be damned if I'm going to tell a borrower a few hours before their appoinment that they're on their own. I was honestly more concerned about the lack of a shipping address and not physically counting fax-back pages at that time.

Addtionally, the borrower's name was wrong through half of the 2nd, and SSN was wrong throughout. Like I mentioned. Disaster from the get-go.

I did get the shipping address at 1:30am, so out it goes in a few minutes.

I'm sure I'm missing something, I'll revisit this later from real keyboard instead of a Blackberry. Thanks folks!

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/20/07 8:50am
Msg #226981

I hear you Kat, understand where you are coming from, and like your style. Good luck with this one.

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 9:35am
Msg #226992

Now that I'm on a real keyboard again...

Thank You Brenda, I appreciate it.

I'm not sending out fax-backs. Considering how many times I had to go through those two packets last night (because of the lender's errors on the borrower's name/SSN), nothing was missed and the packet will go out in a few minutes when I head back into town. I do not work for companies that insist on fax-backs. If other notaries want to, they're more than welcome to, but I hate them (fax-backs LOL, not other notaries!), and ask if they're included because I do -not- want to do them and on the rare occasions I have, I charge for them.

When I send over the tracking number, I'm going to insist again that she remove me from her list of notaries because any future calls from her company are going to be met with a vehement "Not only no, but hell no!" followed swiftly by dead air on the phone. She states that:

"When I originally recieved this signing request from Lender,it was only disclosed that this was a 1st. Then I was later told that it was a 1st and 2nd and nothing more, which I disclosed to you as soon as I was notified. I absolutely agree with you that the Lender should have disclosed all the specifics regarding the loan, however they did not. If you had any issues what so ever when you recieved the docs via email you should have addressed it then."

Unfortunately, the information concerning the fax-backs was not even the primary issue at that point (I was still thinking one package and not a dual), the primary issue was "Where in the heck is the return shipping info???", so figuring that it'd been forgotten, I requested it (via email and then headed to the appointment an hour+ away) and was told (via return email several hours later) that I'd get it -after- doing fax-backs. In my mind that amounts to holding the docs hostage, and I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I -refuse- to be responsible for someone else's financial information for any longer than I have to.

I prefer to check one more time at the table (again, because of errors in the docs, I had to have gone through those two packages at least half a dozen times), and then seal the package in the shipping envelope -in front of- the borrower. I generally drop the package while on my way home, then once I return home, I delete the docs from my email and my SD card (they are never downloaded to my harddrive) and go on to the next appointment/next day.

My ire is also due to the fact that I hold the borrower's innocent in all of this (as well I should) and I HATE having to call borrowers and tell them that "I'm sorry, but I will not be assisting you this evening, you're going to have to have your appointment rescheduled (again, in this case).... Unfortunately I will not be serving you at all and have no further info. I'm sure the lender will be in touch to reset your closing date." Once it gets down to the wire like this, I have a hard time personally dumping on the borrower and I will do what it takes to get the signing done on time and accurately, even if that DOES mean dodging deer on backroads at 10pm (which is what I was doing last night out in San Saba). Closing a loan is stressful enough to the borrower without adding a pissing match between a notary and signing agency at the last minute.

Anyway, thanks for the input (from all y'all!). I still do not have the signing agency's address, so I guess I will be unable to add them to the review section. Pity.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/20/07 9:31am
Msg #226991

Given your circumstances you might consider getting a scanner, and scan the docs to your computer and then email their fax backs. Your going through a lot of time and expense with no appreciation. I use a Brother MFC8440, it has a 50 page autofeed on top (very convenient) scans it into the computer and then you just attach to your email. They have other machines out there very simular if you don't like brother office machines. I go to this website to purchase a lot of my equipment: www.amatteroffax.com; they sell this equipment at a fraction of a lot of other companies. I got my MFC8440 from them for $289.00, it retailed for $989.00 and up at the office supply stores. The machine faxes, scans, copies and prints. It even shrinks and enlarges on the copier, with the autodoc feeder. Prints 21 pages per minute with a 250 page tray that uses letter or legal size paper, toner cartridge gets me 6000 pages. I've had the machine for almost 2 years now no problems.

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 9:38am
Msg #226994

Most outstanding. Thank you.

I'd thought about scanning in their faxbacks and just emailing it to her..... and would, if I wasn't being a stubborn snot now.

I do have companies that I LIKE working for (easy, no hand-holding, quick-paying and excellent overall), who occasionally ask for very minimal fax-backs. THOSE are the ones that I have scanned and emailed to in the past.

Reply by Carol Ventura on 12/20/07 11:28am
Msg #227019

RESPONSE to Kat_TXRe: DocSigningPros????

Kat,

When I originally contacted you regarding this signing, I had disclosed all the information that we had regarding the loan and even met your fee that you requested. You had mentioned that since it was approx. an hour drive away for you would need an additonal fee due to the travel time and we met your fee. We did not string you along but kept you updated on the status of the appt and the status of the docs throughout the day. Yes, the appt. had to be rescheduled to the very next day because the docs were not ready, however that is out of our control. In regards to the 2nd package of the loan, you were notified as soon as we were notified from Lender that this was a 1st & 2nd. Honestly, when we (our Company) recieved the signing request from Lender, we were told that it was a refi only. It was not until later, that we found out that it was a 1st and 2nd and I notified you immediately (6 hours prior to the scheduled appt). Because we are a signing service, we usually have a certain fee that we are able to pay the Notary for that assignment. Yes, we did go back and forth regarding the feesfor the 2nd, however we eventually met the fee you requested for the 1st and 2nd. When I originally sent you the first set of docs (approx. 5 1/2 hours prior to the scheduled appt.) it included Notary Instructions. The Notary Instructions clearly states on the 2nd page that there are several faxbacks upon completion of the signing. If you had an issue w/ the faxbacks you should of addressed it then so that we could have resolved the issue. You were notified well in advance that we required faxbacks upon completion of the signing. I did not know that you had in issue with the faxbacks until you completed the signing and I recieved and email from you stating that, "I have -never- worked for an agency that required that documents be approved prior to sending over the shipping info to forward on the documents. You are in essence holding these documents hostage, and if this is the lender's requirement (which I DOUBT because I've done dozens of signings for Countrywide in the recent past) it's a VERY RIDICULOUS requirement. I have ALWAYS had that information PRIOR TO going to a signing. Period. " Faxbacks is usually a quality control measure that we and the Lender take to ensure that the documents have been signed properly before we ship them out. This allows us to catch any errors, correct them immediately and ship docs out. If errors are not caught and the Lender recieves the docs, this will cause a delay in the funding of the loan, as we have to get docs resigned and then again overnighted to the Lender.
So, since you do not want to faxback any of the documents I am assuming that you guarantee that there are no errors. Should there be any errors, you would be responsible to have them corrected and shipped at your expense.


In your email you wrote, "You -will- send over the shipping information for these as soon as you receive this email or I will either ship directly to the title company, return the package to the borrowers, or shred and your company can start over and explain to the borrowers how you screwed up so badly on your end. I refuse to be responsible for this package any longer than I should have been in the first place. I SHOULD have been able to drop this in a FedEx or UPS drop box TONIGHT."

I feel that is very unprofessional of you if you were to handle the situation in that manner. As stated in my email and in the Notary Instructions, fax backs are required by 9am the next morning after the completed signing. Once recieved and docs are approved, we email the shipping instructions to you within 10 minutes of receipt of your fax so that docs can be shipped out that day. Whether you dropped them in the drop box last night, they would not have been picked up until today anyways.

Lastly, I was very surprised to read your email last night and also to find this on the forum today I thought that I was very honest with you from the very beginning when I initially contacted you. Yet you seem to have a different opinion on this particular assignment. I simply wanted to respond to what you have mentioned here so that everyone will have 2 sides to this story....

Reply by janCA on 12/20/07 11:55am
Msg #227028

DocSigningPros

If the SS's would have hired experienced NSA's in the first place, none of these faxbacks would be required today. Five, six years ago this was never required until the SS's decided they wanted a bigger cut into the NSA's fee and hired inexperienced, unqualfied signing agents. And by the way, most experienced NSA's do set their own fees, they don't allow an SS to tell them what they will pay for a 2nd loan, especially after the fact. I agree with Kat and I also like her style.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 12/20/07 12:00pm
Msg #227031

Re: DocSigningPros

I have to say that I too would have done what Kat has done. And until I got a confirmation showing my fee for the 1st and 2nd with the shipping information for the documents, I would not have left the house/office to go to the closing.

So that is a double sided knife you have there Carol, and it can cut you just as bad as you are trying to cut Kat.

Experience comes at a cost, that is in any line of business, and that should have been noted with the questions she asked of you when you called her for this closing. I do not like fax back's either and WILL NOT do them on my dime, if you cannot/will not supply me with a toll free number to be used, you will not receive one page back as a fax back. It is your requirement, so you pay for it.

Like what has been stated on here and other boards and by the experienced NSA's you get what you pay for!!!!

JMHO

Reply by CarolV_CA on 12/20/07 12:04pm
Msg #227033

Re: DocSigningPros

The fee and the faxbacks were disclosed prior to the scheduled appt., actually approximately 6 hours prior to the scheduled closing. We had agreed on the fee for the 1st and the 2nd and the Notary Instructions were emailed to Kat w/ the 1st set of documents, so she was fully aware of the faxbacks. I did not know that she had an issue with the fax backs until she completed the signing and sent me an email late last night.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 12/20/07 12:08pm
Msg #227036

Re: DocSigningPros

But the point is... the fax backs should have been disclosed at the time of scheduling!!!! Not with the documents.

Reply by CarolV_CA on 12/20/07 12:13pm
Msg #227039

Re: DocSigningPros

I do understand. However, if there was any issue regarding the faxbacks she should have notified me when she recieved the instructions so that we can have resolved the issue, whether she did not want to faxback or that there would be an additional fee for them.

Reply by docs1954CA on 12/20/07 12:29pm
Msg #227041

That's the problem with lowballers

Not only do they want you to work cheap, they have to check up on you.Lots of hand holding..call when you get the docs, call when done printing, call when you arrive, call when you're done. Any experienced NSA will check their work before sending it out.I do, at least 3 times.Never had a problem.I take a great deal of pride in doing the job right the first time.I charge a reasonable fee for this service.I deserve it.
All of the special requirments should be discussed when you call a NSA for the closing.Don't hide a faxback requirment somewhere in 3 pages of closing instructions. Be upfront about it from the start.

Reply by pan/nd on 12/20/07 12:29pm
Msg #227042

Re: DocSigningPros

Carol,

You're putting the blame in the wrong place.

The faxback stuff should have been disclosed in writing on the confirmation.

It shouldn't be up to the notary to be a mindreader on the matter..and always ask during the scheduling call about faxbacks.

I'm sick and tired of that crap being pulled on me.

Been there, done that.

If the scenario in question had happened to me, you and I would be at loggerheads real quick.

I don't mind faxing some docs..but 30 pages? Common...that's a bunch of bull..and overkill.

This whole faxback business is nothing but an effort to bamboozle the notary under the guise of quality control.

If signing services /title companies hired somebody that knew what they were doing in the first place....you wouldn't have the problem.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/20/07 12:31pm
Msg #227043

Re: DocSigningPros

I don't know your company and have never even heard of you until this thread so take this as you will. 2 points in your responses jumped out at me. #1 you say fax backs are required by 9:00 and then shipping instructions are sent so docs can go out THAT DAY. while that seems to be no problem, what if she is on the road all day (doesn't matter why - she's just out - basically when we walk out a borrower's door we're finished - we haven't signed on for hanging around time) and doesn't return until late in the day? She wouldn't have access to the shipping info. Some people are quite a distance from the drop off boxes. #2 you say you sent the info 6 hours ahead of time. Did you send it separately or with the loan docs? Why weren't the entire instructions sent with the order? If I had a loan scheduled one day, rescheduled for the next and it turned into a double, I wouldn't even look at the first one 6 hours ahead of time. I'd wait until the second arrived.

Being up front in that initial phone call goes a long way. Not initially disclosing everything that is required (not talking about the 2nd because everyone in this business understands that's not your 'fault') is asking for these kinds of situations to happen. You don't like it. We don't like it. Certainly the lender wouldn't if they knew. Disclosing additional tasks after giving us the initial order is just plain wrong. It would be like going in to get your bangs trimmed and saying to the hairdresser, since I'm here, give me a perm and don't charge me because on the phone you said $7. Having the plumber come to fix a leaky faucet and while he's there asking him install that new bathroom sink you bought - at no extra cost because he's there. FULL disclosure (again not talking about the 2nd) should be part of your every day procedures.

Kat - if you charge enough $$$ for your orders, fax backs become a nonissue. I don't have a problem with fax backs but I certainly wouldn't guarantee the package would go out the same day. Not sure why your long distance doesn't work properly. Also, if you know ahead of time (understanding in this case she didn't give you shipping info - very few companies would do this) make a second copy of the docs to be faxed back and have them sign 2. I know Carol, this won't be the document you are returning, but anyone with any brains double and triple checks the docs so there should be no errors. Carol, do you interview people prior to hiring them? If you do so, perhaps you wouldn't require hand holding when so many of us do know how to do our job and do it correctly.

Reply by CarolV_CA on 12/20/07 12:37pm
Msg #227045

Re: DocSigningPros

This is a requirement by the Lender. There have been many cases where an "experienced" NSA have made some errors. So it is not a guarantee that all NSA will have an "error-free" signing. The Lender is just trying to avoid delays in funding due to any errors.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 12/20/07 12:44pm
Msg #227046

Re: DocSigningPros

So Carol you are telling me that Kat was to fax the 60 pages back to Countrywide? Or they were to fax them back to your office? Who in your office has the authority to say if they are correctly done per the lender's requirements? Do you in turn have to fax them to Countrywide?

Mistakes are a part of life, there has not nor will there ever be a perfect human, just in this case alone, the processor/LO or someone made several errors on the documents that Kat had to deal with... so requiring perfection of a person that does not have perfection supplied to them is a bit troublling to me.

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 12:50pm
Msg #227051

Re: DocSigningPros

THANK YOU!

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 12:46pm
Msg #227049

Re: DocSigningPros

Delays in funding?

I think the biggest problem is that the SSN was wrong throughout both packages and the gent's name was wrong through half of the 2nd.

I'm done here. You'll have the FedEx tracking info in a bit, when I can get to my email.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/20/07 2:24pm
Msg #227063

you didn't address my REAL purpose

Granted, everyone can and does make mistakes but why then don't you want EVERY page faxed back?

You didn't answer if you screen your notaries? I'm guessing not because there apparently was price haggling and if you offer a fair fee for a closing from someone experienced (which you'd find out by just about a 2-3 minute phone conversation) , fee shouldn't have been an issue.

What is your response to not initially disclosing the entire scope of the work expected?

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 12:49pm
Msg #227050

Re: DocSigningPros

Hi Sue,

The big problem with the home phones is that I'm in an old development and we seem to have a 'party line' situation. I can be on a call from home and have what sounds like a faxmodem kick in and then kick me off the line. Makes faxing docs REALLY interesting to say the least which is why I fax from the business center instead.

Clear as mud? This is one reason I pretty much refuse faxbacks if they're disclosed up front, which they were NOT at this point.

If anyone wants the email correspondence with time/dates let me know. I'll of course trim out the personal info concerning the borrowers, and all doc data, but the date/time concerning when items were received will be patently clear.

Reply by Kat_TX on 12/20/07 12:45pm
Msg #227047

Re: DocSigningPros

Unfortunately for you Carol, this is where you are wrong.

While yes, you supplied the 1st HOURS before-hand, you make the assumption that I would have pulled and checked the entire packet prior to printing.

I tend to print (making sure Adobe doesn't eat the format, which it WILL on some printers if you fail to note 'print as image') and run. ESPECIALLY when by the time the download completes and print starts, it's nearly 3:30pm and the appointment is at 5pm (bearing in mind I still have an HOUR to drive).

Forgive me for not noting right then that there were faxbacks. Enroute to a signing is NOT the time for me to call you and complain about the fact that you have them. I CAN however find issue with you stating that you will withhold the shipping addy until you've received the faxbacks to get approved. THAT is where you are in essence holding the docs hostage.

My only option at that point, bearing in mind that I DO NOT want to be responsible for someone else's financial information any longer than I have to, is to either ship to you (since you're withholding the delivery info), drive out and hand to the borrower, or shred (once again, destroying data that I have no right to retain).

This was a fiasco from moment one.

You couldn't get the phone number for the borrower's right even after I called AND emailed asking for confirmation and telling you what was happening when I placed the call.

You -should- have known that you were getting into a 1st and 2nd and when you found that you weren't you should have been calling or emailing and asking me what it would cost for a second FULL loan packet instead of asking if I'd be fool enough to only take the (already discounted) rate quoted on the single packet.

And I'm sorry, receiving docs 3 hours before the appointment is just ridiculous. ESPECIALLY when you consider that I still had to download, print and run.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/20/07 1:29pm
Msg #227054

Re: RESPONSE to Kat_TXRe: DocSigningPros????

**You were notified well in advance that we required faxbacks upon completion of the signing.**

Carol, The faxing back needs to be disclosed before the appointment.

It is far-fetched to expect the notary to schedule an assignment, bid and assignment and perform perfectly an assignment which they do not know the extent of.

It seems like signing services are hopeful that the people they hire will not realize that they have a choice in not doing the faxing back once the assignment is given. Experienced notaries won't accept whatever is put to them in the confirmation. It will save you time to clearly state your expectations in the confirmation, if not in the phone call.

Reply by docs1954CA on 12/20/07 1:37pm
Msg #227057

They are hoping you won't notice

That's why they bury those type of requirments somewhere in their confirmation. Another excuse not to pay you, if you don't do it.

I had a company call me a few days ago, don't recall the name now since I didn't accept the signing, that told me upfront what their policy was for a no sign, cancelled closing.I could make an intelligent decision right then if I would do it or not. It saves all of us alot of time if you SS's are honest about what's required.Don't play games with us, I for one don't appreciate it.

Reply by EastTxNotary on 12/20/07 3:27pm
Msg #227077

Re: RESPONSE to Kat_TXRe: DocSigningPros????

Hey Brenda! I just got a call from Transcontinental. Scheduler says he's trying to schedule a signing for such and such date and time. Then he says "It's a Countrywide with faxbacks. What is your fee?" I LOVE it! That's really all it takes...a little clarity at the scheduling call.

But I have to admit guys...I made a mistake recently and they caught it! BO was signing as Suzie Borrower and I entered her name in the cert as Suzie Q Borrower. Consider my hand SLAPPED!