Posted by Deborah Benjamin on 12/15/07 12:07pm
Msg #226193

Notarizing in a Foreign Language (Arabic)

I was asked to notarized a three page document that is written in Arabic. Is this a documents I can notarized?

Reply by Roger_OH on 12/15/07 12:42pm
Msg #226197

We notarize signatures, not documents, so the content/language of the document is not your concern (save for any blank spaces). If you can ID the signer and they are willing to sign the document, you can notarize their signature. Ask the signer if they want an ack or a jurat, and then notarize according to your state's wording.

Reply by Deborah Benjamin on 12/15/07 1:52pm
Msg #226224

To everyone. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. I learn so much from reading this board daily. I will proceed with caution and have the borrower sign the document in English in my presence. I will attach the required notarial wording (in English). The document was signed in Arabic, although she did bring her Iranian passport with her USA visa stamped and that was signed in both Arabic and English with her signature. I will also call the New Jersey notary office on Monday and get further clarity on this one.

Thank you again.

Deborah

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/15/07 12:50pm
Msg #226202

Be careful with this one

Check the notary laws for your state but more IMPORTANTLY - check with the E & O insurance policy holder very carefully. They may NOT cover you for notarizing docs in a language you do not speak, read or write if you are sued. Why would you be sued? Because the person suing likes to fattening his chances at getting something so he sues everybody involved in the transaction, that includes the Notary.

Since I have a $100K policy with my particular surety company, it does NOT cover for signing documents in a language I do not speak, read or write. I would have had to buy a cheaper policy in order to be covered OR I would have had to buy a $100K E & O policy from another company at 4 times the price. CA law says I can notarize in a foreign language, but my particular insurance company won't cover me at the level of protection I want.

Reply by Roger_OH on 12/15/07 12:56pm
Msg #226204

Re: Be careful with this one - help me understand?

The primary role of the notary in deterring fraud is to ID the signer, determine that he/she is signing freely, and notarize the SIGNATURE accordingly.

I guess I'm not understanding why your insurance carrier believes they have any potential liability for what's in the document, since your only responsibility is the ID, signature and a proper notarization?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 12/15/07 1:19pm
Msg #226211

Re: Be careful with this one - help me understand?

The notary is also supposed to make a lay judgement that the signer is competent. Some people express this as the signer having a general understanding of the document he/she is signing. So if the signer seems to be competent (is able to anser the door, can find a pen, knows what date it is, etc.) and says the document is a power of attorney, but you can't tell if it's a power of attorney or not, is that a problem? I'm not sure.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/15/07 1:32pm
Msg #226214

Re: Be careful with this one - help me understand?

With this insurance company, if you're getting the $100K, a mandatory questionnaire has to be mailed or faxed with the application and each question has to be initialed that you agree or will comply. On the line that asked if you will ONLY notarize docs in the language you speak, read and write, I did not initial it since CA law says I can notarize foreign language docs.

I signed the application and faxed over both it and questionnaire and 60 seconds later my phone rang. It was the insurance co., and they said I HAD to initial that question. I tried to argue the point you made, but they told me if I wanted that option, I would have to take a $30K policy. Since I have a home and other assets to protect, I initialed on the line, refaxed another copy then they approved the $100K policy. I could have that option with another insurance company but pay 4 times the price.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 12/15/07 12:57pm
Msg #226206

Re: Be careful with this one

But, we are not notarizing documents!!! We notarize signatures.
All we are saying when we fill out the certificate on a document and put our seal on it is that that particular person appeared before us and acknowledged they signed the document, or that they swore (or affirmed) that the contents of the document are true to the best of their knowledge and belief. That is a notary's function. To ID the signer, not to determine what the contents of the documents are or mean.

You are not notarizing in a foreign language. The certificate must be in English.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 12/15/07 1:16pm
Msg #226210

The certificate must be in English?

Well, certainly the certificate must comply with state law, which might or might not specify an exact certificate, which happens to be in English. And certainly it must be in a language you understand. But I doubt that every state requires certificates be in English.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 12/15/07 1:51pm
Msg #226223

Re: The certificate must be in English?

I haven't checked the other states laws on this. Florida Governors manual does specify English. Maybe some notaries from other states can clarify what their state law is on this.

I can also refuse to notarize if the document is not in English, but as I would only be notarizing the signature I would have no problem.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/15/07 11:09pm
Msg #226315

For Oregon: "A notary public may use a certificate

written in a foreign language, if he or she can read and write the language on the certificate, and the certificate meets the minimum requirements of Oregon statute ORS194.565; 575. Otherwise, the notary could offer to type or attach an English language certificate chosen by the customer."

"...a notary can always refuse to notarize and refer the customer to a bilingual notary...or a notary can notarize signed, English translations, but these may not be acceptable to the receiving agency...If a non-Roman alphabet us used, some recorders require translation. The usual procedure is to notarize the oath of the translator of the document to the accuracy and completeness of the transaction. The translation is attached to the original, together with the translator's oath, and the notary notarizes both the translation signed by the signer in the original document and the signed, original document itself."

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/15/07 1:40pm
Msg #226218

I absolutely agree with you....but

.....some insurance companies won't cover the Notary. She should double check to see if hers does. Mine doesn't at the policy level I have and I tried arguing the point but to no avail.

There could possibly be another problem for the Notary. If at the table, the signers start a discussion in Arabic and she has no idea what anyone is saying, then there's that whole issue.

Even if the signers speak fluent English, I do not allow anyone to speak another language at the table. I must understand what others are saying at all times. Once I leave, they can speak whatever language they chose.

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 1:42pm
Msg #226220

Re: I absolutely agree with you....but

"I do not allow anyone to speak another language at the table."

You're kidding right? What do you do if they slip up?

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/15/07 1:52pm
Msg #226225

Re: I absolutely agree with you....but

No, I'm not kidding. I ASK them not to converse in their native language and POLITELY explain why. Never had a problem or complaint.

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 2:01pm
Msg #226227

Re: I absolutely agree with you....but

"No, I'm not kidding. I ASK them not to converse in their native language and POLITELY explain why. "

Sorry. I must have misread your first post where you stated "I do not allow anyone to speak another language at the table". I did not see where you said you ask them. That's why I asked if you were kidding about not ALLOWING it. My mistake.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/15/07 2:05pm
Msg #226230

Re: I absolutely agree with you....but

Me sorry too for not clarifying. I should have been clearer :-)

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/07 7:48am
Msg #226323

Re: I absolutely agree with you....but

**Even if the signers speak fluent English, I do not allow anyone to speak another language at the table.**

Wow. I cannot agree with that policy. This is still America. While I wholly endorse the usage of English as the primary language, I am not the police of language...especially when I am working in a person's home.

You would allow someone to leave the table to privately discuss a matter. This is no different. Just quicker.

I don't need to understand what others are saying at all times. I just need to know if they have the proper ID, are coherent, that I can communicate with them sufficiently and they are willing to sign the document.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/17/07 12:47am
Msg #226436

I don't agree either

You expressed exactly what I was thinking, Brenda. I believe the borrowers have every right to have a private conversation. As long as I am able to converse with them directly to ask questions and understand their answers (and vice versa), it's none of my business what else they may want to discuss in their own home! Frankly, I found that statement a little bit shocking. However, I found the insurance company's claim about documents in another language pretty surprising, too!

BTW, a nitpicky question for the original poster... Are you sure the document was in Arabic? Most Iranians I've ever met speak Farsi and consider themselves Persian, not Arab. The written characters are either the same or similar. (That I'm not sure about.) BTW, I don't know if it's true, but I heard some Iranian on the radio today say that even though they control the government, Arabs in Iran represent less than 2% of their population! Talk about shocking statistics!!

Reply by Gerry_VT on 12/17/07 8:39am
Msg #226451

Likely to get a decision: Authentication

Documents sent abroad often (but not always) need an apostille or authentication. For the most part, Arabic countries have not signed the treaty that allows apostilles, so there is a good chance the document will need an authentication. This means your SOS's office will get a chance to look at it and decide if it is proper for them to authenticate a foreign-language certificate.