Posted by Smug/Fl on 12/15/07 7:19am
Msg #226174

Right to Cancel

Anyone have the form for borrowers to sign saying they elected not to cancel. Form says do not sign until after RTC date. Companies want them to sign it at closing and date it after RTC date. Just wondering how others handle this.

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 7:25am
Msg #226176

"Anyone have the form for borrowers to sign saying they elected not to cancel. Form says do not sign until after RTC date. Companies want them to sign it at closing and date it after RTC date. Just wondering how others handle this."

The way I handle it is I would tell the borrowers what the company wants them to do, then let them decide if they want to do it. I am not a lawyer so I cannot advise them what to do. If they refuse to do whatever the requesting company asks of them I get the borrowers to make a note of their refusal and sign it.

Reply by CF on 12/15/07 7:53am
Msg #226177

I handle it the same as WDMD. It is a pita- when companies use this form. I am not sure why some use it and other dont. I simply say what they want and tell the BO that obviously I do not come back to ge the other signature and that "they" want to have it done now. Only 1 time did I have a BO say NO and they faxed their copies back to TC after the recision date. When using the form I have the BO date it for the next day after the RTC expires- not the same day. Does anyone know why some companies use this form and other not????

Reply by JK/TX on 12/15/07 8:14am
Msg #226180

Re: Election not to rescind

I would not ask a notary to get this doc executed at closing. To me this doc, returned signed before the 3 days are up, could take away the borrower's right to cancel. The borrower can sign and date after the recission period and fax to title/lender/SS.

The doc confirms that the borrower has not rescinded (i.e. they have not sent the Right to Cancel doc to the lender signed on "I wish to cancel" line, or whatever the procedure is noted on the Right to Cancel doc to cancel the loan).

Reply by JK/TX on 12/15/07 8:16am
Msg #226181

Re: Election not to rescind and..

I hate this doc too! But....

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/15/07 8:30am
Msg #226182

Re: Election not to rescind and..

A TC told me that the loan will not fund without this document. The reason for signing at the table with the rest of the doc's is to "keep the borrowers from freaking out on the day after recission deadling".

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 8:45am
Msg #226183

Re: Election not to rescind and..

"A TC told me that the loan will not fund without this document. The reason for signing at the table with the rest of the doc's is to "keep the borrowers from freaking out on the day after recission deadling"."

Boy that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen if the borrowers do decide to rescind and they have already signed that. Not saying it would be the notary's fault. I just wonder what would happen if the borrowers changed their minds later and the lender produced that document. If the borrowers balked at signing the doc, and if the TC told me it would not fund without their signatures, I think I would let the TC tell the borrowers that. Might save a problem down the road. I wouldn't want to be dragged into something where the borrowers say, "but the notary told me I had to sign it".

Reply by DianeCipa on 12/15/07 8:56am
Msg #226184

UCI

Those who will comment on the UCI, this is a great item to discuss. The UCI clearly tell the "closing employee" that the signature date must be accurate. No back dating and I would say no forward dating.

As a training directive they could and should advise lenders to discontinue this practice.

Reply by LisaWI on 12/15/07 9:13am
Msg #226185

Re: UCI-I was thinking the same thing myself Diane

I had one particular situation where this doc would of saved the TC. A borrower had exercised his right, but had mailed it in by the time stated on RTC. Because of the mailing time, it took longer to get to the destination which was after the funding date. Having no knowledge of this, the TC had funded the loan and was scrambling to stop all the payments on the HUD. I can see this document being an asset to all parties if it is used as it is intended.
If I get no direction from hiring entity and the doc is the package, I let the borrower read and usually its a non signed document. I leave it at that.
I have seen another doc, that states the Settlement Agent has confirmed with the borrower that they will not be rescinding the loan after the rescission period.
.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/15/07 9:56am
Msg #226186

Re: UCI

"discontinue this practice".... can't argue with that. You want to handle that, Diane?

Reply by DianeCipa on 12/15/07 3:16pm
Msg #226244

Re: UCI

okey dokey

Reply by Doris_CO on 12/15/07 11:21am
Msg #226190

Re: Election not to rescind

When I worked for a certain financial company this form was used. The borrower had to bring this form back into the office on the day of funding in order to pick up their checks. That made sense, sort of.... But if the borrower is across the country from where the actual checks for funding will be cut, then this form makes no sense.

Reply by MichiganAl on 12/15/07 12:14pm
Msg #226194

You can't lose your three day RTC by signing this

I don't like this form either, but the RTC isn't going to be lost by signing this. RTC can't be waived or overrided by simply signing a form that says three days have passed. If they decide to cancel, that form isn't going to keep them from it.

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 12:43pm
Msg #226198

Re: You can't lose your three day RTC by signing this

"If they decide to cancel, that form isn't going to keep them from it. "


Question Al. Lets say they do sign the form and date it for the day after the recission period ends. Then they decide to cancel mailing in their RTC form during the recission period, but the lender receives the form after the recission date. The lender says no, you cannot cancel,you signed the document saying you did not cancel. We have the signed proof. What do you think is going to happen then? Who has the written proof?

Reply by MichiganAl on 12/15/07 1:26pm
Msg #226212

Re: You can't lose your three day RTC by signing this

First off, notice doesn't have to be RECEIVED by end of RTC, it has to be SENT by then (big difference). In any situation, the borrower has to show that they sent it in time (registered, certified, stamped receipt, fax log, something). If they do, no signed document supersedes that. RTC is regulated by Regulation Z, there are only very specific circumstances that can override it. Another document saying my three days has passed isn't one of them.

Reg. Z Right to Rescind:

http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-1700.html#6500226.23

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 1:37pm
Msg #226216

Re: You can't lose your three day RTC by signing this

"First off, notice doesn't have to be RECEIVED by end of RTC, it has to be SENT by then (big difference). In any situation, the borrower has to show that they sent it in time (registered, certified, stamped receipt, fax log, something). If they do, no signed document supersedes that. RTC is regulated by Regulation Z, there are only very specific circumstances that can override it. Another document saying my three days has passed isn't one of them. "

I understand that it has to be sent in during the 3 days. That's why I stated "what if they mailed it during their cancellation period". I submit that if there is a dispute over the borrowers wanting to cancel that if the lender has a document with the borrowers signature stating they did not cancel all the lender would have to do is say they never received any RTC form during the recission period. I would think a judge would wonder why the lender would have their signature on document saying they did not cancel.

My point being that the borrowers would be foolish to sign this document in the non-cancellation area if they have any doubts at all about the loan. By the way, any time I have personally seen this about the non-cancellation it was all on the same document, not a different one. The borrower signs at the bottom of thr RTC saying they did not cancel.

Reply by DianeCipa on 12/15/07 3:18pm
Msg #226246

Re: You can't lose your three day RTC by signing this

I agree with you Alex, but the problem is that most consumers are confused and may think they have signed away the right.

Reply by WDMD on 12/15/07 3:38pm
Msg #226258

Re: You can't lose your three day RTC by signing this

"I agree with you Alex, but the problem is that most consumers are confused and may think they have signed away the right."

Legally by signing that form they may not have signed away their rights. But it sure gives a shady lender a leg up if anything should ever be disputed. The lender has a signed piece of paper. This thread has gone way off base from the original question of giving advice.

Reply by MichiganAl on 12/15/07 9:01pm
Msg #226302

Come on, half the fun is seeing where a thread ends up!

Honestly, I don't like that form either.

Reply by CARID on 12/15/07 12:21pm
Msg #226195

I am with Diane, I have also had this document in loan closing packages. We are not to backdate or postdate. When I see this if there are not instructions in the package with a fax number for this form to be returned to. I call the Title Company and get the information for the borrower. I make sure they understand the importance of getting it faxed to the Title Company in a timely manor so funding is not delayed. That has always worked for me. I use to get a lot of these. But not so much anymore.

Reply by Roger_OH on 12/15/07 12:46pm
Msg #226199

I have them initial the original...

indicating they are aware of it, and send it back with the package. I then leave a copy on top of their package; assuming they go thru with it, they sign their copy on the 4th day and fax it in to LO. Never had a problem. Would never have them sign ahead of the RTC date.

Reply by MichiganAl on 12/15/07 1:35pm
Msg #226215

Backdating/postdating only applies to notarized docs. People can put whatever date they want on other docs, it's not under our umbrella. I just never want to be the one to tell them. I let the t.c. or l.o. tell them how to handle it. If they want to post date it, that's not for me to get involved.

Reply by DianeCipa on 12/15/07 3:19pm
Msg #226247

date of docs and UCI

UCI will cover all docs.

Reply by MichiganAl on 12/15/07 3:25pm
Msg #226253

I can't wait to see this implemented on a wide scale

I hope the UCI is everything it seems to be. It could eliminate a lot of shenanigans. I'm cautiously excited.

Reply by DianeCipa on 12/15/07 5:57pm
Msg #226279

Re: I can't wait to see this implemented on a wide scale

Me, too, Alex. There is so much in play. I have a feeling even the MBA and ALTA will be getting more than they bargained for. I am very excited about Senator Dodd's bill. I can't wait to read the full text. At this to what we are expecting from state regulators and I think next year we may see "good actors" back on top.