Posted by Jcobb on 12/28/07 9:07pm
Msg #228065

Title Abstract course?

what advantage would there be to have take a Title Abstract course?
Anyone?

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/28/07 9:19pm
Msg #228069

Your wallet won't be so heavy?

Reply by Jcobb on 12/28/07 9:29pm
Msg #228071

Would it be too much to be respectful in this Forum?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/28/07 9:42pm
Msg #228074

And what might your definition of "respectful" be?

Pat was obviously trying to inject a little humor, and in my opinion what was said was both funny and an answer, Kudos to Pat. I see nowhere in the guidlines where one must be absurdly serious at all times. Ease up, you got an answer, a legitimate answer. I got what Pat was saying: save your money. I don't know either of you but with your attitude jcobb you are not going to win any popularity contests!

Reply by Jcobb on 12/28/07 9:47pm
Msg #228077

Re: And what might your definition of "respectful" be?

I love humor too. THis evening though, I wanted to know if any Notary had taken the course and was there any benefit to it. I've seen lots of questions answered on this forum, most answered respectfully to give the person their answer to the question posed. Some are sarcastic and some rude. I became a memeber to gain more knowledge, have a few laughs on occassion and give my two bits when I thought I could contribute. I guess I like straight forward answers.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/28/07 9:53pm
Msg #228081

Re: Unless it's an in-depth course with hands-on training

I wouldn't touch it - too much involved and it's all on you - you do a root search (for a purchase, etc) and miss one thing or don't follow the chain properly and it's on you - lenders and title companies rely on the abstractor in drawing the title policy and insuring the lien position of the loan and the title to the property (in the instance of an Owner's Policy)....Doing R.E. closing CT and reviewing title searches and seeing what's involved, I don't see how you can possibly learn all you need to know in a short, 3-week or online course - most of the searchers I knew had a law background. JMHO

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/28/07 9:57pm
Msg #228082

Re: Unless it's an in-depth course with hands-on training

Hey Linda, I had a photography background. My boss never finished college, now he golfs with the bank presidents. But he was fourth generation in the business and is a great success. I think time is the key ingredient.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/28/07 10:03pm
Msg #228083

Re: Unless it's an in-depth course with hands-on training

I threw the law background thing in as an afterthought - realized as I was typing that, yeah, most of the ones we used were attorneys too...they'd write the title policies for us if necessary. I didn't mean to imply a law background was necessary - I knew some independent non-lawyer abstractors, too, but my firm didn't use them.

Reply by JK/TX on 12/28/07 9:44pm
Msg #228075

Pat's not being disrespectful..... just honest.

Type in your search engine the following; title abstractor sued.

Some interesting reading.


Abstracting is much more than finding liens and a/j's and releases. You actually have to know the documents and there are "many".

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/28/07 9:52pm
Msg #228079

Charles: Thanks!
JK: Thanks!
Jcobb: Again, deepest apologies (looking at feet)

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/29/07 7:28pm
Msg #228181

Not a problem Pat, in my book respect needs to be earned...

not demanded and I saw nothing wrong in your answer, I got a chuckle out of it in fact.

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/28/07 9:44pm
Msg #228076

I apologize for the wisecrack, Jcobb. The straight answer is, in my opinion, title abstract courses are a waste of your money - unless you are using it to gain some initial knowledge in order to apply for a job with a company that will train you further.

I worked for a couple of years for a title company before I was allowed to do abstracting work on my own. You may be smarter than I am, I don't know. But you can take the one day, three week course, whatever it is and hang your shingle. You may not even realize what you didn't learn until your first claim comes in.

Great timing, though! Oops, Jiminey crickets, I did it again.

Reply by Jcobb on 12/28/07 9:49pm
Msg #228078

Pat. Thank you for your answer. It is really what I thought. I'm always looking for ways of increasing my income and knowledge, but didn't know if it would really accomplish that means.
Thanks again.

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/28/07 9:52pm
Msg #228080

You are welcome.

Reply by NCLisa on 12/28/07 10:41pm
Msg #228087

The course is USELESS!!

Title abstracting is an art, something that takes years to learn. A course does not even begin to teach you what you need to know. Another paralegal and myself have been title abstracting for 35 years between the 2 of us, and we still learn new things every few weeks.

Reply by GA/Atty on 12/28/07 10:45pm
Msg #228088

Not much unless you want to become a title abstractor.

It's an essential part of the loan process.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 12/29/07 5:16am
Msg #228104

The above answers you have received are fairly accurate.

Furthermore, you will need to carry e&o insurance policy. Your clients will usually require a $1,000,000.00 policy to cover liability in the event that you miss an item in your seach and fail to report it in your abstract.

Added to that there is constant pressure placed upon abstractors to reduce their fees, and there seem to be fewer clients than the signing agent have available to them. There is also the matter of a shrinking volume of available work. Much of the information contained in the land records offices is being placed on line, and the works of abstraxting these records on line is being outsourced to countries with cheap labor...Indi, China and The Phillipines.

Summing up abstracting is a business with heavy liability and little financial return for the abstrator. My firm got out of it last year, and re-focused on closings. Best move we ever made. Even in the current slump our revenue for the real estate end of the practice has trippled in the past year.

Don't waste you time with abstracting.

Reply by WDMD on 12/29/07 6:54am
Msg #228106

I'm curious about abstracting as I know little about it. It is my understanding that most abstractors are independent contractors much as notaries are. Is that true? If so, my question is do independent abstractors have to be licensed? Reading these posts it seems that the abstractors have much more responsibility/liability in the loan process than a notary does. If abstractors do not have to be licensed shouldn't they be? If independent notaries need to be licensed because someone requested they stack the paperwork in a certain order, then it seems to me independent abstractors should have to be licensed also. Shouldn't they?

Reply by Loretta on 12/29/07 8:11am
Msg #228108

Re: Title Abstract course?...JCobb...do me a favor.....

Hit that orange search button and type in "title abstracting". You will find in depth the story of how the mortgage business has not only hurt notaries but has put some abstractors out of business. Abstractors are a dime a dozen and the only way to work for reputable title companies, you have to be working for an attorney for several year before you branch out on your own. I do not trust anyone to sub my title work out to unless they have about 10 years in the field, been trained by an attorney and have plenty of insurance so I can sue them if they miss a mortgage or judgment and the lender comes after my company. Those law suits equal up to hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars and not pennies.

I am not sure if attorneys will even hire someone that has little or no background in the title business. If you are really determined to put years of schooling into the title business, take some paralegal classes at college, attorneys will hire paralegals.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/29/07 10:20am
Msg #228123

**If independent notaries need to be licensed because someone requested they stack the paperwork in a certain order, then it seems to me independent abstractors should have to be licensed also. Shouldn't they?**

Good point. Good question.

Having said that, and understanding exactly what you are referring to, I'll finish this post directing it to the original poswer by saying that anyone who is interested in abstracting to make additional income would be well served by seeing the posts at Source of Title. Between outsourcing and substandard abstracting requirements during the boom, quality, qualified abstractors have suffered.

Furthermore, to the original poster, I'd say, if you can't take a joke by a vet poster (Pat IL) without getting snarky to them you'll want to find another group to ask for help from. This is a community. If you want to be a part of it don't start being nasty right off the bat or you will soon find yourself ignored. Just a helpful hint.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/29/07 2:40pm
Msg #228154

Aw, gee, WDMD--that makes too much sense. n/m

Reply by Shannon_Va on 12/29/07 11:27pm
Msg #228196

Re: Aw, gee, WDMD--that makes too much sense.

WDMD, you hit the nail on the head with that one. YES, I feel strongly that abstractors should be licensed. They are practically the only link in the chain of a closing that does not have to be licensed (besides the loan officer in some states)
At last count, there are only 7 states that actually license their abstractors.

I have done it for 17 years, it is indeed a learned science, something you most definately can not learn in an online course. You can learn the basics, terminology and theory of it, but to actually perform a search is another story. Every county records office is totally different. No one can teach you where everything is in every Clerk's Office.

I would highly recommend not taking on the liability in this market right now. But if you really do want to learn, find someone who can teach you, follow them around having them explain it to you, every step of it...for a minimum of at least six months....maybe when the market gets better you will feel confident in what you have learned to go out and do it on your own.

I hope my rambling helped in some way.

Shannon