Posted by Negrete on 12/12/07 7:25pm
Msg #225738

Would I be wrong ?

Would I be wrong to let all SS's know about a notary that did an awful job on a closing for me ?

Anthony Negrete

Reply by Frenchie/TN on 12/12/07 7:33pm
Msg #225741

If you did something wrong it would be ok for any signing agent to post it here so I am thinking about the old saying "turnabout is fair play".

Reply by Terri_CA on 12/12/07 7:34pm
Msg #225742

If you contact them just to provide this information, yes. However, if you were contacted because they gave you as a reference, you'd have to be very careful in how you told them. Because what you say could be considered slander or defamation.

I am not a lawyer or attorney, this is not to be considered legal advice.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by claudine osborne on 12/12/07 7:47pm
Msg #225750

Anthony,

I think if you were asked for a reference would be one thing, but to cold call them to let them know how bad a job this notary did. I'm not so sure that would be good. Do you want to start a blackball list?

On the other hand, if I hired someone to do a job for me and they performed poorly. I simply would not rehire them and I would tell my friends and co workers.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/12/07 7:41pm
Msg #225747

Would you be wrong, no, could the costs outweight

the benefits, possibly. As an employer I completey understand your frustrations and the inequities of the situation. However that being said I have always believed that prudence is the better part of valor and the crap that could be stirred up may not be worth it. Give me a shout if you'd like to chat, I'm at my Northern CA office this week and probably for the Holidays and then I'm off for Mexico in January.

Reply by Frenchie/TN on 12/12/07 7:50pm
Msg #225752

Re: Would you be wrong, no, could the costs outweight

Just curious: any employer can state, upon being asked for a reference, that so and so is not elligible for rehire so could he not say "this notary is not eligible for further assignments with my company" and be within legal limits?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/12/07 8:02pm
Msg #225759

I understand completely what you are saying Frenchie, but

we are becoming a more litigious society and here in California it is even worse. In a perfect world the onest and hard working would be rewarded and the louts punished but we don't live ina perfect world. I have employees and I have tenants and basically as advised by my attorneys the best we should do is state the dates of hire/occupation and the current status as too whether they are employed or not and the rate. Several years ago there was a major lawsuit regarding an individual who was a sexual predator and his employer reported it to an inquiry from another employer and it turned into a huge mess and the first employer lost. I just find its better to just suck it up. It has gotten so bad that in a suit I filed last week for unlawful detainer I received a notice from the court telling me that the files are sealed for 60 days after the initiation of the suit. The only reason I can see that they would be sealed for 60 days is to allow the evicted tenant to find another victim without the eviction being discovered. I am not a member of the Bar and anything I may have said is not to be construed as advice, only my own personal opinion.

Reply by ME/NJ on 12/12/07 7:48pm
Msg #225751

Now that you made it public - Big No

Companies are being held liable if they provide negative information prevent the person seeking gainful employment.

Today companies only report basic info now and alot want the request in writting to avoid this trap.

So to answer the question in "public" it would be no, what is said over the phone and by who ..hmmmm lol.

CYA

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/12/07 8:04pm
Msg #225760

ME/NJ's got it exactly right. Unless I knew the caller

personally I'd still be very discreet.

Reply by Roger_OH on 12/12/07 9:22pm
Msg #225792

Gotta disagree here...

at least in Ohio (where Tony is). Our Supreme Court has held that negative references are OK,
as long as they are TRUTHFUL and done in GOOD FAITH. One of the upshots of this is that you can be sued for NOT providing a negative reference.

For example, I as a bank President, fire an accountant for embezzlement or other fiduciary misconduct. He applies for another accounting position at another bank several counties away. If that bank contacts me for a reference, and I do NOT tell them he was fired for fiduciary reasons, then I can be held liable by the second bank if he commits the same offense with them. (Actual case).

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/12/07 10:44pm
Msg #225805

Re: Gotta disagree here...

Thanks, Roger. You've been sparse around these parts lately. I must admit, I'm a big fan and miss your contributions. Now that I've checked out your new profile picture, I'm a bigger fan. Okay, I'll put my tongue back in my mouth now. It sure is nice to see you.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/13/07 1:47am
Msg #225821

C'mon Becca it's the Hyundai isn't it??????? n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/13/07 1:44am
Msg #225820

Rog, how do you define Truthful and Good Faith? Do you think

that your definition of truthful and good faith might by any chance differ from someone elses? How wold your definintion of truthful and good faith exempt you from being sued? I'm gald that the Ohio Supreme Court gave you such defninitive guildelines to go by, I am sure that with those good words handed down by the Ohio Supreme Court that no one will ever have a disagreement or ever go to court again

Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/12/07 8:07pm
Msg #225761

That's probably one for the lawyers to answer, but I would think that if notaries can post complaints about a bad SS, the SS should be able to post complaints about bad notaries. We're not employees, we're independent contractors - so if it's OK for us to warn other contractors about vendors who are a problem, why would it not be OK for vendors to warn other vendors about contractors who are a problem?

Just my opinion - I am not an attorney.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/12/07 8:07pm
Msg #225762

Not at all, IMHO, there isn't any difference in listing a bad company or a bad notary, they both hurt the field.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/12/07 8:09pm
Msg #225764

I think it would be more useful to share what that Notary failed to do correctly so that the rest of us can learn from this.

What did the Notary do wrong? (i.e. showed up late to appt., dressed inappropriately, failed to follow specific instructions, missed signatures/initials, was rude to borrower, discussed loan terms with client, parked in client's driveway, trampled flowerbed, etc.)

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/12/07 8:13pm
Msg #225765

Hi Tony,

I thought the cafe allowed for SSs to rate notaries, am I right? If so, why not just rate the notary appropriately? As a business owner, I don't think I would go out of my way to call and warn other services for sake of legal action, as others have mentioned. I would not have a problem with bringing up the information in conversation with another SS owner. We all know you guys talk to each other. Just like we talk to each other.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/12/07 8:15pm
Msg #225766

No, you would not be wrong. Just be careful.

Don't put anything in writing. Period.

As others have said, we (Notary Signing Agents) are independent contractors, not employees, so some of the rules don't apply to us. To initiate a phone call to chat, then gently work the conversation around to ... umm ... less than ideal experiences, and drop a name into the conversation would be the way I'd handle it. I wouldn't call everybody I could find, I'd just call people in my _informal_ network. Certainly I wouldn't use the topic to initiate a new relationship.

IMHO, people who contract with Notaries need to be protected from those who screw up royally just as much as Notaries need to be protected from companies that do not pay their bills.

Tony, you're one of the good guys. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience!

Reply by Negrete on 12/12/07 8:24pm
Msg #225767

Re: No, you would not be wrong. Just be careful.

1) She showed up 30 min late and, and I gave her a 2.5 hrs notice. She only lived 25 min from the closing, and did NOT have to print docs. The docs where at the Title office.

2) She used a Spanish Translator for the closing ( she said she spoke spanish )

3) She brought 4 children with her to the closing, they palyed out in the water fountian in front of the title office while she did the closing.

4) She missed 3 notarizations.

Whats a SS to do, just bite the bullet I guess.

Anthony J Negrete

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/12/07 8:31pm
Msg #225770

Wow! That's lying and unprofessional behavior. PLEASE do .

... report the actions and circumstances. The alledged notary does not deserve to further damage the reputation of Notary Signing Agents.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/12/07 8:51pm
Msg #225776

Re: No, you would not be wrong. Just be careful.

I can understand now why a TO told me to make sure I dressed businesslike at my closing tomorrow at a bank. I found the remark insulting and informed her that I dressed businesslike for all of my closings. I guess you just take precautions with everyone since there seems to be a lot of unprofessional notaries out there.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/12/07 8:51pm
Msg #225777

Re: No, you would not be wrong. Just be careful.

ALL of her actions were blatant and deliberate and one violated California notary law (use of a translator)....who would bring one child to a signing job, let alone FOUR!

To protect yourself, speak with your attorney as to how you would be able to give a review of a Notary's bad performance. People automatically assume that something spoken or written that is negative makes them guilty of slander of libel, but slander and libel have to do with reporting FALSE and MALICIOUS statements.....not TRUE statements.

I suggest you speak with your attorney as to how to tactfully write a review, give all the facts and make the point that her actions were beyond unacceptable and unprofessional.

Reply by Vince/KS on 12/12/07 10:01pm
Msg #225799

And her actions reflect on you for hiring her and that is

why many employers would apologize profusely for doing so to the customer. The title company may or may not be as willing to use your service in the future - hopefully she didn’t burn your reputation entirely. Most employers will try and cover the tracks of a mistake like this because of the poor reflection and not be as trusting of others in the future.

Reply by Vince/KS on 12/12/07 10:03pm
Msg #225800

meant to say "assign" rather than "hire" n/m

Reply by Carole Breckbill on 12/13/07 7:27am
Msg #225827

Re: No, you would not be wrong. Just be careful.

I hope that as the hiring entity you called these deficiencies to the notary's attention and let the notary know how unhappy you are with this kind of performance.

Reply by LORNA DENT on 12/14/07 12:06pm
Msg #226052

Re: No, you would not be wrong. Just be careful.

wow, she broke alot of rules of doing a signing job. Those are all things that I was told not to do when i first started...when I train notaries, I also make sure they know not to do these things, I also tell them that even though they think they may not get caught to think again, you never know if a borrower will say something about being unprofessional, and always double or triple check your work its always better to be honest, and professional...you never know when it might come back to bight you if you do otherwise.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/13/07 7:42am
Msg #225829

OPPOSING VIEW (OH SURPRISE)

Did you interview this lady? You've come on this board every so often for several years with tales of the horrid notary. One time I suggested you actually interview the people you farm your work out to. You stated that you were going to start. You personally called me 2 times since then and asked me to take orders. You didn't ask one question other than if I was available. What do you know about me? What I myself made up and placed in my profiles on the various sites. Mine actually happens to be true but I am quite sure some people 'add a little sugar' to what they say about themselves.

I realize every company can't have coverage in every area of every state every minute of every day but if you want quality people, your coverage had better be pretty dense and if it is, those you know are unavailable they should be able to recommend someone else decent in their area.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/13/07 8:02am
Msg #225832

Re: OPPOSING VIEW (OH SURPRISE)

Excuse me, but we aren't employees, we are independent contractors doing business. If a notary will post a lie on this site about their experience or anywhere else, they will certainly lie about their info in a verbal interview. Because they will continue the deceit they already started on their web post. I think that the notaries should be rated 1-5 on this site the same as the companies. Lying deceitful companies are exposed, why not the notaries engaged in contractual work after all they are running a business under their own name usually instead of a business name to avoid getting an occupational license and work out of their homes.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/13/07 9:31am
Msg #225855

It only takes about 1/2 minute...

to figure out via phone if the notary is experienced or a newbie. (Heck, I can nail a 'newbie Scheduler' in one sentence. I would think it works the other way around, too.) I get calls/e-mails from notaries about one thing or another and 1/2 minute is all it takes! If you get a 'newbie' remark--well, it's worth spending a few more minutes to see if they are adequate or clueless.
That being said, I do feel your pain, Anthony...but Sue is also correct in her statements... a few questions or even an open end "Tell me about your experience" will stop a lot of errors from even being possible.

Reply by Negrete on 12/13/07 8:04am
Msg #225833

My final thoughts

Thanks for the reply Sue_PA.

I do come on more often than a couple times a year to post here.

I don't just come on to complain about notaries that screw up closings for me.

I did a reading of her profile and she stated that she was NNA certified.
( Maybe that was my first mistake in taking that for granted )

I do appriciate all the feedback from you folks , be it - or + .

Anthony J Negrete

Reply by Les_CO on 12/13/07 9:26am
Msg #225848

Re: My final thoughts

My thoughts are that there are many, many, unprofessional and down right crooked SS in this business. (Of whom you {Tony} you are not one of!)They should be eliminated! The best way I know to do this is through exposure. There are also at least some unknowledgeable, and unprofessional notaries, or supposed ‘Notary Signing Agents’ in this business that should NOT be. I think it is not only proper, but advisable, and your DUTY to let all that are now struggling to stay in this business know who these people are.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/15/07 2:54am
Msg #226172

Re: My final thoughts

Tony, may I suggest that the "first mistake" wasn't in believing that this notary was NNA certified, but rather that there was any significant value in being NNA certified. I think there's a big difference between book knowledge and real life experience. (This from the former teacher who is a big believer in education!) There is no substitute for experience. When I was a newbie, I passed their certification test with 95+ scores, but I didn't know squat compared to what I have learned since. That certification is merely a starting point and I feel that the only people likely to promote the fact that they have that certification are those who don't have anything else to promote about themselves and their qualifications to do this work. jmho