Posted by DianeCipa on 12/7/07 6:34pm
Msg #224957

kindred spirits - we fight for our money

Over these months that I have read Notary Rotary, one of the things that has most impressed me is the fortitude with which this community collects it fees.

You value your services and hell be damned you will get paid. I have always taken that position but continue to be absolutely shocked by title people who just don't get it.

I invoice, I send second notices, I send a demand letter, then go to the magistrate and if needed, to sherriff's sale. Sometimes what starts out as a $150 charge grows to $500 because the consumer or mortgage broker has ignored me. When the sheriff shows up at the house and puts a tag on the big screen TV or the X-box, I ususally get a check.

Why do I do this? Because I will NOT stiff an abstractor and I won't eat lien letter fees.

So, we've been having conversations all over the web trying to get folks to understand that title agents just can't continue to eat these fees and I get a call from an abstractor. This was yesterday.

He works hard. His fee for a full search is $120 and he works in several counties so he drives pretty far for sosme searches.

I asked him about getting stiffed by title agents and attorneys. He said it happens all the time. The deal doesn't close, the title agent or attorney is afraid to charge the consumer or lender and so they stiff him.

That stinks! so, I mention that there are a few great conversations taking place on the web which include title people and real estate agents and lenders and suggest that he and a few abstractor friends post a comment or two.

Total no show, no comments, no get the rabble out and fight for freedom and what you believe in. So, I just needed to pop in and say how much I admire the group dynamic on self worth and the value of your service.

Reply by JK/TX on 12/7/07 7:17pm
Msg #224963

--abstractors....

<<<<He works hard. His fee for a full search is $120 and he works in several counties so he drives pretty far for sosme searches >>>>

I have a great respect for abstractors.....that can be a very difficult job. $120. just doesn't seem to be enough, especially for metes and bounds, property located in rural areas that's been sliced -n- diced by families decades back and etc.... and then to get ditched on payments.... I agree, they should be paid...period.

Reply by Pat/IL on 12/7/07 9:53pm
Msg #224988

Re: --abstractors....

Abstractors have traditionally been paid for services rendered. There seem to be some corporations trying to change that, attempting to deny payment in cases that don't fund. Others with large accounts payable are closing and opening under a new name. Hmm, sounds a lot like the complaints on this board.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that abstractors are not necessarily business savy, whereas the vendor managers don't necessarily appreciate the craft that the abstractor has often worked decades to become so adept at performing (yes, there are exceptions in both cases). I think it has everything to do with eggheads running businesses with little realization of the role that each of its components plays.

This all started with the consolidation of the lending industry. The local craftsman, who used to market local, must now adapt to the demands of the guys who just know Wall Street.

Insert the word "Signing agent" wherever you see the word "abstractor" to see why this is relevant to a signing agents' discussion board.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/7/07 7:47pm
Msg #224968

we fight for our money Diane, it happens at all levels of

this industry. When I started in the real estate business I used to work for a bank, in those days there were a lot of banks int he business now only Downey Savings still remains. I worked for Great Western Commercial Brokerage a division of Great Western Bank (their slogan was "we'll always be there" yeah, right). Anyway one of my mentors in the business had been a commercial broker since before I was born at the time. He had a listing in the Rancho Bernardo area of San Diego County: now a very expensive community. He had negotiated with Daiwa a Japanese tract builder of enormous stature and closed the deal with them, it took almost a year of negotiations. In commercial there are few safeguards since all involved are considered professionals. The day that escrow closed Daiwa closed their offices and left the country, the final instructions issued to escrow did not include any commission payment and it was a deal of multiple millions at the time. Believe me it hurts at the notary level and it hurts at the Broker level. I am not sure which hurts more the loss of the money or the breach of trust!

Reply by NCLisa on 12/7/07 11:22pm
Msg #225002

Abstractors

I wish I got $120 for a full search. The norm here is $75 for a full search, $60 to $65 to update from a previous policy if the abstractor has to search out the policy and $50 for a current owner search. I have a much harder time getting paid for abstracting services. Took one local attorney that used to be a friend 7 months to pay me for 2 months of searches, but the bill was $3200.

I rarely do abstracting these days as I'm sick of fighting for every dime!

Reply by JK/TX on 12/8/07 12:02am
Msg #225004

Re: Abstractors

Yeah, there has been alot of fallout in recent years and everybody looses....

A complete title search w/a title commitment (no title insurance) in my area is $250..... just searches (run sheets) are not offered thru the title co anymore (use to be $85.). But most counties are online now so anyone can do a "search". But not everyone knows what they are looking at or exactly what they are seeing other than grantor/grantee.....

Reply by Loretta Reed on 12/8/07 9:39am
Msg #225022

Re: Abstractors....I feel ya this morning......

Several title companies here do not want to pay if the borrower does not close. If I can get $75 for a current owner, I am doing good. Nationswide companies are now offering a whopping $35 for a title search (Old Republic, GAC). I, as the abstractor, are one of the people that can make or break a deal. We are as important as the appriaser. $35 for a search that, if I miss a mortgage or judgment, they will sue me to pay off the lien. That's alot of pressure. I am fortunate that we are not totally online. I have to go to the courthouse to pull judgment books. If anyone tells you that they can do an correct and efficient title search online here, they are full of b-o-l-o-g-n-a.

Reply by NCLisa on 12/8/07 11:10am
Msg #225036

Re: Abstractors....I feel ya this morning......

We have to go to the ROD's or clerks office (depending on county) to view judgments also. In NC, a licensed NC attorney is the only one that can certify or write an opinion of title on real property in this state. Seems the TC's are calling abstractors and paying nothing for the search, then paying an attorney $150 to spend 2 minutes reviewing and cerfifying so a commitment can be produced.

Reply by DianeCipa on 12/8/07 11:20am
Msg #225038

talk about this in the blogosphere

I think the whole issue payment for services rendered must be put on the table in blog forums including title agents, Realtors, and mortgage lenders. I know abstractors chat in Source of Title and you all chat here, but it's a matter of education.

They can comprehend the appraiser's report as a service which is key. The abstract is no different, and frankly if a closer goes to a table having performed their role, I believe it's the same.

These are not commissioned jobs. They are services rendered for a fee.

Deal falls thru, we don't get to charge for title insurance, but we should at least be able to pay the abstractor.