Posted by Charm_AL on 12/21/07 9:29am
Msg #227175

my last appointment...

last night was with a borrower that scared me. He didn't have ANY paperwork from anyone involved with the loan. He wanted to sit there and read every document and kept saying "this smells bad to me" I told him I'd be happy to call his LO and reminded him of his RTC after I pulled all the docs out of order to show him all the 'figures' docs. After an hour of telling him his figures and showing him, he still wasn't satisfied and was raising his voice and then telling me he knows it's not my fault, etc.
Then he wanted to read the entire mortgage, had read every word of the docs before that. I told him I would be there til midnight if he was going to do that. Then he gets all worked up again after seeing the escrow account. It didn't have required flood ins worked in and then he accused the company of trying to screw him.
The company itself isn't bad, but the person that handled this transaction either didn't know what he was doing or didn't want to deal with the guy.
He said "I should have never done this on the phone, now it's late I'm tired".
I will refuse it if he gets his questions answered

As I'm getting ready to tell him to stop the closing, being a little shook up, he stands up and slams the paperwork down and says "I'm not doing this, you better call them and find out what the hell they are trying to do. I didn't even want to say "not my loan, not my job". I just quickly exited stage left. When I got into the car I was shaking for about three miles just thinking about what could have happened.
You know, once you get into someone's house and they lock the door behind you, it's quite unsettling that there's one male borrower in the house.

Ok, thanks for the vent

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/21/07 9:39am
Msg #227178

I think about it a lot as I get in some way out of the way places. After 2 visits (a year apart) to a man in a cabin in the middle of the woods, I did a search on him because he was scary at times. Turns out he had just gotten out of jail the first time I was there! He had served 7 yrs for sexual assault! I was told he requested me (after the fact) for the second signing.
I always leave my appt book open on my table so my family knows where I am.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/21/07 9:43am
Msg #227181

Safety

Those of you that have car alarms on your car. If you are nervouse about a home you are in, keep your keys handy. If you run into trouble with someone in their home, hit the panic button. The noise will definately get the attention of the neighborhood and may divert the attention of the person you are with. The keys can also be a defensive weapon if you need it.

Reply by Pierces Notary Services on 12/21/07 9:47am
Msg #227183

Excellent idea! n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/21/07 9:51am
Msg #227185

Re: Excellent idea!

I also have my mom's school teacher whistle on my key ring. Initially I used it to call my kids in (we lived out in the country) but I also found it works to break up those quarreling sessions that verbal warnings have no effect on. It seems to break a circuit in their heads and kept my blood pressure from rising.

Reply by Charm_AL on 12/21/07 9:50am
Msg #227184

Re: Safety

that's a good one, I casually took my cell phone out of my poket and opened it and put it on my lap incase I needed to hit the speed button to Greg.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/21/07 9:52am
Msg #227187

Re: Safety

Most borrowers think nothing of you having a cell phone with you or laying you keys on the table.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 12/21/07 11:07am
Msg #227208

Re: Safety

I was concerned about one of my appointments several years ago - company was Vital Signings (before they got paranoid about fax backs etc), and I had voiced my concerns to Vital Signings scheduler.
At the borrowers Vital Signings called me a couple or so times to make sure I was OK and there were no problems.
As I pulled into driveways of borrowers I always called my husband on the cell phone and always called him as I pulled away, so if there were any problems he would know exactly where I was.

Reply by Becca_FL on 12/21/07 11:06am
Msg #227207

Re: Safety

Zana, that is a great idea. I carry pepper spay in my briefcase. Thankfully, I've never needed to use it, but I know it's there in case I ever do.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/21/07 11:11am
Msg #227213

Re: Safety

Can't get pepper spray here. I used to get something call "Bark" at the bike shop to spray chasing/ biting dogs when biking but have'nt been able to find it for several years.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 12/21/07 11:36am
Msg #227228

Re: Safety, Cabela's has Bear Spray which is a very high

concentration Oleoresin capsicum spray used by hunters and hikers to ward off Grizzleys. There is a small size that is available. A favorite of mine is UDAP and they have bear spray in personal protection cannisters at www.udap.com. Generally it is easier to deploy a Kubotan keychain since many seem to leave their keys on the table. The Kubotan properly used is an extremely effective personal protection tool.

Reply by Rachel_NJ on 12/21/07 9:52am
Msg #227186

Thank the heavens you left there safely and nothing did happen to you.

Reply by Charm_AL on 12/21/07 9:56am
Msg #227190

Rachel...

As I was white knuckling down the street, I must have said thank you! 10 times.

Reply by Calnotary on 12/21/07 11:07am
Msg #227209

Re: Rachel...

Oh no Cheryl! I am a man and I have never feel unsecure in the borrower's home but if I ever feel unsecure for any reason I would just leave the house and I will answer any questions late by phone. Nothing in this world is worth your personal safety. Be safe and remember that someone in your house is waiting for you!!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/21/07 11:09am
Msg #227211

Males, as well as females, need to be cautious!

Having been assaulted by a borrower, I can vouch for that fact.

Always be sure someone knows _exactly_ where you are going to be. Call if the place and / or time changes!

Reply by BetsyMI on 12/21/07 11:13am
Msg #227216

Once I met a borrower in his hotel room

I really got a reaming out by my boyfriend later. I admit I did have some misgivings about going there but once I saw the guy I figured my fears were unnecessary. But you never know, and I'll never meet a borrower in his hotel room again.

It was one of those Extended StayAmerica hotels that have no lobby or meeting room, and his room had a desk in it next to the kitchen. But still I should have known better.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/21/07 11:15am
Msg #227219

Wow. You were _lucky_! n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 12/21/07 11:25am
Msg #227221

Re: Once I met a borrower in his hotel room

That is a good decision. Your options at the time was to do a heads up at the front desk and insist that the door be left open. Also to go down the street to a more public place.
Sometimes I think I am overly paranoid about this but I was also a realtor at one time. We had a lot of safety seminars during a period when one guy was calling blonde female realtors to come look at his house for a possible listing. As the agents got talking it came out he was a cross dresser and would meet them at the door in full drag with porn going on the TV. He would adopt certain aspects of almost every realtor in dress or mannerisms. All it took was a talking to by the local constable to get him to stop.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/21/07 11:50am
Msg #227232

I'll Catch Grief for What I'm About to Say...

...but as a male I won't meet with a single borrower of the opposite sex by themselves in their home or a hotel room. Either someone else must be present or we meet in a public restaurant, library or similar location. I turned a signing down just the other day because the borrower was a widower & wouldn't meet in any other location besides her home. She didn't want anyone else present for privacy reasons (which is certainly understandable) & the TC ended up finding a female to do the job. In my opinion what just happened to you Charm is "exhibit A" for a woman adopting a similar MO to what I do. JMHO!

Reply by Charm_AL on 12/21/07 11:55am
Msg #227234

Re: I'll Catch Grief for What I'm About to Say...

I like your idea the best for the opposite sex, I'm afraid to use any sort of spray (although I carry it) that can be taken away and used on me.

Reply by CF on 12/21/07 12:46pm
Msg #227243

My exit plan....

I have been in a couple of questionable signings.....and I almost left one. However, I would not think twice about it now and I would leave. I carry my purse, the docs and a little bag that hold pens and my stamp. I would simply get my stamp- could care less about the dcos or pens.....and say" You know what I left something in my car.....I need to get this document before we can continue" Grab my stuf and get out.....I would back my way to the door- and open it myself. I know this is good in theory....I hope that I NEVER need to do it. After I would call the BO and tell them if they want to meet me at McDonalds down the street to get the docs and come. But I am not coming back to you house alone! It is scary sometimes....the worst one was when the male borrower was drunk....and PO'ed at the wife for running up credit card debt. It is scary when there is only a man at the house....really freaky!!! Sorry- to the guys.....but it is scary for women! Also, my husband call me after 30 minutes at night....so he knows that I should be done and if I did not answer- I am sure he would call the Police. All I do is say- yes, still here. And he verifies that everything is OK. You need to make sure you are safe before making $$$$$.

Reply by MonicaFL on 12/21/07 8:15pm
Msg #227307

Re: I'll Catch Grief for What I'm About to Say...

Well, I will probably catch grief about this too but here goes: Where I live there are lots, and lots and lots of dirt roads ( I didn't even know this until I started as a signing agent). I get lots of calls to perform notary duties after dark. If I don't recognize the location, I always ask if they are on a dirt road, in the country, etc. If they say yes, then I tell them that I will be bringing another notary with me as we do not travel alone after dark and it is a safety issue. I trained another notary and we work together in this. I have never had a borrower tell me that it wasn't okay to bring someone else with me. I know everyone says "don't take anyone with you" but I would rather be safe than have my family be sorry. JMHO.

Reply by SE/Florida on 12/21/07 10:37pm
Msg #227329

Re: I'll Catch Grief for What I'm About to Say...

I agree with you Monica. I too live in a very rural area and most of my signings are on dirt roads. I am not fortunate enough to have another notary available to ever go with me, so 9 times out of 10, my husband rides with me. I always inform the borrower that my husband will be riding with me since I am still learning the area and the appointment time will be after dark but that he's used to waiting for me in the car. I don't think you can be overly cautious at all. Be careful out there!

Reply by sue_pa on 12/22/07 7:20am
Msg #227362

for Monica and SE/FL

not grief but just my thoughts. What does a dirt road have to do with safety? I feel safer in the country than I do in a city. Maybe just my area. Also, I realize everyone must do what they must to feel safe in this world but my personal opinion is if you are afraid to drive around by yourself after dark, this might not be the job for you. By 2 people going to the appointments, you are in effect cutting your money in 1/2 on each job.

Reply by MonicaFL on 12/22/07 7:24pm
Msg #227461

Re: for Monica and SE/FL

Not afraid to drive alone after dark - its the areas that we have to go into that makes one "jumpy" about going there by yourself. You would be totally shocked - if its possible to shock you - at some of the places we are required to go. I also hate those "one way roads" where there is a cut-out - and when it is raining, well, that is a whole new story. In summary, its going into the "back woods" that bothers me and, I might add, the other notaries in my area. I also don't lose any money on the deal. We repay each other by helping each other out. We all feel that safety first is the most effective way to stay well and alive.

Reply by SE/Florida on 12/23/07 7:05pm
Msg #227507

Re: for Monica and SE/FL

Sue, I think it's obvious. As far as the dirt road goes, if my car had a flat or was to break down, I'd much rather be on a well lit road as opposed to a dark dirt road. For me it's not being afraid to drive around after dark, it's simply being cautious just as I would when I lived in the city and turned down work I knew was in a "bad" neighborhood. IMO, that does not qualify me or anyone else as being in the wrong business at all. I too live on a dirt road and have for two and a half years now. I love it and feel very safe as do you, but that's really not what we were talking about here. Dirt roads are fabulous.......until you are stranded after dark and all alone.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/22/07 7:17am
Msg #227361

Re: I'll Catch Grief for What I'm About to Say...

I've read your thoughts on this for years Dennis. While I personally will go into a house with single men I have always kept your thoughts in my mind. I'm certain I am a tad more cautious than I would be without your very practical wisdom. Had one yesterday where I arrived and husband was home. Wife waltzed in 20 minutes late. You never know what a situation is until you walk in the door.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/23/07 6:55am
Msg #227469

I Know Some...

...interpret my actions as being a little too cautious in this area & I understand that. It's a practice I employed long before I started performing loan document signings. It's certainly not perfect because I can potentially lose some business & one can run into compromising situations just like you did even with stringent precautions. But overall it's served me well & the one signing I lost the other day was the 1st one in 7 years.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/23/07 7:25am
Msg #227470

Re: I Know Some...

Your practice isn't overly cautious, it is a personal choice.

Just like mine was when a couple tried to talk me into taking the husband back into town to get their other vehicle that night at around 9:30 pm after a signing. It was probably not a sinister move but I didn't "like" the couple...both were highly educated and the neighborhood was pricey. My radar went off for some reason. I didn't question it, I just said no, that my dogs had filled all the extra seats with dog hair and I would be embarrrassed for them to be covered with it upon arrival. Still they pressed for me and swore that wouldn't matter. I got a bit terse with them...and was sweating it out that they'd walk me to the car to see...but I walked really fast, got in and locked the doors.

On the other hand I have been in a rough neighborhood where I had to be escorted in after dark and felt nothing threatening the entire time I was there; I would have taken that gentleman wherever he'd have asked. Of course, being a gentleman he wouldn't have asked and certainly wouldn't have pressured me when I said "no thanks."