Posted by Jody Peterson on 12/12/07 11:36pm
Msg #225807

power of attorney

I have been asked to notarize a power of attorney but I have never done this before. Am I allowed to do this and I just want to confirm that they are supposed to write it out in front of me say on a loose leaf? please any help will be appriciated. The guy is in the hospiatl and his daughter is doing stuff illegally and they want to appoint his other daughter to be his power of attorney to make legal decisions.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 12/12/07 11:56pm
Msg #225808

You can notarize the signature of the person granting a power of attorney, however, the guy in the hospital, signing this document needs to have ID, needs to be lucid and able to comprehend, etc... It is not for you to decide what they need to write, or how to write it. The family can do their own research on how to prepare a power of attorney. They can find this info on the internet, or from an attorney or legal forms outfit. You should not be doing any research on their behalf. Please read your handbook, pg 6/7 as follows:

"ACTS CONSTITUTING THE PRACTICE OF LAW"
California notaries public are prohibited from performing any duties which may be construed
as the unlawful practice of law. Among the acts which constitute the practice of law are the
preparation, drafting, or selection or determination of the kind of any legal document, or giving
advice with relation to any legal documents or matters. If asked to perform such tasks, a
California notary public should decline and refer the requester to an attorney

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/13/07 12:33am
Msg #225811

No, no, NO! Don't originate documents!

As a Notary Public you are not supposed to practice law unless you have been admitted to the bar in your state. Drawing up a Power of Attorney form _on your own_ is definitely crossing the line into Unauthorized Practice of Law (UPL).

It has been suggested (often) that you _could_ direct people to the Internet or to a store (Staples, Office Depot, Office Max, etc.) for the statutory form _appropriate to your state_.

Knowing that n witness(es) is / are required for a Power of Attorney in your state is A Good Idea.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/13/07 12:38am
Msg #225812

Revied the document. If client bought the forms at Staples or Office Depot, the blanks should be filled in by them before it's notarized. Be sure they understand that you CANNOT help them fill out forms. If it's an attorney generated form, the names are preprinted. Also, confirm that both father and daughter have valid ID.

Many times the patient's wallet and personal stuff is at home instead of with them at the hospital so make sure to confirm they have ID's with them.

They are not difficult to do. One thing you have to watch out for. Sometimes those office supply store forms do not have the proper notarial verbiage printed on their acknowledgment. Compare it to a loose certificate you have. If it's not correct, you may need to add a loose certificate with the correct notarial verbiage.

Good luck!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/13/07 12:42am
Msg #225813

LKT/CA is correct on nearly everything, except ...

... the person being _granted_ the PoA _may_ not need identification, depending on your state law and how the PoA form is written.

From my experience, finding the ID for the grantor of PoA is the most troublesome.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/13/07 12:58am
Msg #225814

You're right....

Some POA forms are written so that only the principle signs.

Most of the one's I've done are the fill-in-the-blank forms. They have a space for the agent to sign along with the principle. Then I notarize both signatures. Thanks for that insight.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/13/07 1:04am
Msg #225815

Thank you! Your clarification / additional comments ...

... were right on.

Reply by Jody Peterson on 12/13/07 2:36am
Msg #225824

Re: Thank you! Your clarification / additional comments ...

Thank you all for the insight on this procedure. I appriciate all replys. I have forwarded this information on the the person requesting and told them I can only verify (notarize ) the signatures as long as they have valid ID. Thanks again and happy holidays.

Reply by NancyOR on 12/13/07 8:39am
Msg #225841

Re: Thank you! Your clarification / additional comments ...

This might offer you some comfort. It's true in Oregon, I don't know about other states. In Oregon people cannot use POAS for "self serving" purposes. We would highly question a POA from a dad to a daughter who then tried to deed the home to herself or tried to get a loan against the home.

Reply by WDMD on 12/13/07 9:41am
Msg #225859

Re: Thank you! Your clarification / additional comments ...

"In Oregon people cannot use POAS for "self serving" purposes. We would highly question a POA from a dad to a daughter who then tried to deed the home to herself or tried to get a loan against the home."

Who is the "we" that would question this? I would imagine that most POA's are giving a POA to a relative. Are you saying you would not question a POA to a stranger, but would question a POA amongst relatives?

Reply by NancyOR on 12/13/07 5:12pm
Msg #225951

Re: Thank you! Your clarification / additional comments ...

Sorry.....I represent a title company and am the escrow administrator. It really wouldn't matter if it was relatives or a stranger but the operative function is "self serving". For instance we had a caregiver for an elderly lady who was now in some kind of home and the caregiver had a POA, signed by the little old lady and notarized. He wanted to use it (the POA) to deed her house to himself and subsequently refinance the property. We would not close that transaction.

Reply by Terri Garner on 12/13/07 11:14am
Msg #225877

A California notary may notarize the signatures on ANY document presented to them, provided, however, that the following conditions are met:

1. All signers personally appear before the notary;
2. All signers present acceptable identification;
3. Document does not contain any blanks;
4. The Signers sign your journal;
5. They pay your fee (maximum $10 per signature)
6. And the notary is not aware of any false information in the document.

That's it, I get thumbprints for all documents, however, effective 1/1/08 thumbprints are REQUIRED for notarizing POA's.

Like I tell my students, don't get caught up in what the document is, what its title is etc. Just make sure that it's complete, signers are in front of you, etc., etc., Don't get caught up in their personal issues (one daughter doing wrong, giving POA to the other), stay completely out of that.

Good Luck

Terri
Lancaster, CA