Posted by BobRogers_FL on 2/26/07 6:56am
Msg #177140

Another piece of crap from the NNA

Here's another fine example of how (not) the NNA is supporting the Notary Public. It looks like another push to FORCE their ENJOA software on all notaries or be left out in the cold. The below article details how apostilles can be validated electronically using the software program developed by the NNA and provides a link to validate the notaries credentials. Big problem...unless you are a notary with an "electronic seal", you don't show up in the validation process. Therefore any documents that you have notarized that are attempted to be validated using this process will leave the party on the other end believing that you are not credentialed.

Way to go NNA!

Disclaimer: All opnions expressed are mine alone!

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=217075

Reply by LawrenceOK on 2/26/07 7:05am
Msg #177142

I'm just sitting back and waiting for the NNA to dig that hole of theirs a little bit deeper.

Reply by Teddog/CO on 2/26/07 7:33am
Msg #177148

How right you are Lawrence. I am waiting to see them involved in a Class Action suit at any given moment. JMO

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/26/07 7:34am
Msg #177150

Unfortunately, unless we, the disgusted Notaries, actively fight the NNA, they will win by sheer propaganda at the state SOS level. It's already happening & will only increase as they meet with a few successes. How we stop this, I have no idea. They are a nat'l organization, 300,000 (or whatever # they are claiming now) members strong (that they don't listen to & use unmercifully) and I am but one dissenting voice--always ignored. They need to be stopped. Don't know how.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 2/26/07 7:48am
Msg #177151

I have alway been told that the world is one big wheel, what goes around, comes around. Now this is just my opinion, but I do believe that some wheels are starting to turn straight in their direction. dig NNA dig.

Reply by Manfred Ronnisch on 2/26/07 7:51am
Msg #177154

Stop Paying Dues

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/26/07 8:00am
Msg #177155

Never did pay dues & many former members have stopped, but

The propaganda machine just keeps rolling and accumulating new members---and their money!

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/26/07 7:50am
Msg #177152

The answer is simple...funding a public relations effort explaining the position of the signing agents as a counter balance, and enforcing legitimate legal rights in the event that there has been a transgression thereof. The tough part is organizing the signing agents and funding the effort.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/26/07 8:17am
Msg #177157

Kevin... it doesn't need to be that complicated or expensive

If every Notary Signing Agent would write to their SOS and explain coherently---key word, that-- their objections to the NNA propaganda machine-- well, it won't stop it, but it might get some attention. On what basis could a Class Action suit be filed, anyway?

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/26/07 8:39am
Msg #177158

Re: Kevin... it doesn't need to be that complicated or expensive

Writing to the respective SOS in each state may be a way of venting steam, but unless there is a violation of the law involving the commissioning of notaries and their rendition of services ...little is likely to result. The SOS is probably not going to involve itself in a problem that is essentially a problem of commerce.

What is needed is an effort to explain the objections and opposition of the signing agents. You will need a a reputable PR firm to accomplish this...it takes some cash.

In terms of a class action suit...they are long, arduous and expensive.

If there are cognizable, legitimate claims, better results might be achieved by a number of less expensive, well placed, individual suits which are properly publicized in the campign AFTER JUDGMENT/VERDICT. This would be especially true in the case of violation of federal law because the applicable law would be universal in all states. I stress the words AFTER JUDGMENT/VERDICT because you do not want problems with counter claims for defamation and unfair trade practices. If the suits are successful...the ruling of the court can be published without a problem, and will render the PR campaign more credible.

Reply by Teddog/CO on 2/26/07 8:01am
Msg #177156

No doubt about that Lee. Money talks and you know what walks. 300,000 members , I wonder how many of those members are Newbies and how long they are able to sustain relationships Long-Term with their members. What to place a bet?? lol The direction that the notary business has taken lately it doesn't look to good. So how long the NNA will be able to drag in new members is open for discussion. I'll go so far as to say that there are more then likely a lot of people that were promised a lot of things the NNA is not able to deliver on. The new people that invested a lot of $$$ for something that is not generating the money promised by NNA. Somewhere down the line the folks that were "sucked-in" at these non-stop seminars are going to start complaining to the state and anyone that will listen to them.

Only time will tell. JMO

Reply by Lisa Peithmann on 2/26/07 10:33am
Msg #177183

If it truly is as simple as mailing our SOS about the NNA. Why not come up with a form letter stating the facts and any proposed solutions that we can all print off, sign and mail in to our SOS?

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/26/07 11:25am
Msg #177196

No, not that simple, but if we each do nothing...

They win. Add your voice to your SOS. Can't hurt.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/26/07 1:11pm
Msg #177213

Kevin....

Want to be proactive and take a shot at this idea? Sounds like a plan to me!

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/26/07 2:40pm
Msg #177232

Re: Kevin....

Lee, if you are talking about a PR firm, you are going to have to get some funding together first. The PR firm will probably meet with you to discuss the project, and quote you a fee afterward. You should try to get a feel for how many signing agents would want to participate. If you can get enough of them interested, the cost to the individual signing agent may be fairly reasonable.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 2/26/07 7:49pm
Msg #177269

Form letters rarely result in action...

if entities start getting form letters they just assume that some organization is pushing a specific agenda. The letters that get the most attention from politicians and other government apparatchiks are individual letters making the same comments on the same issues, it appears much more spontaneous and does not look like a campaign: statistically when individuals start writing it is considered a much more serious situation.

Reply by Laura Vestanen on 2/26/07 4:45pm
Msg #177245

Lee/AR . . . Check your pm . . . . n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 2/26/07 10:57am
Msg #177190

Electronic signature and notarization from a NSA viewpoint..

From a pure business (mine) bias, I would not be happy
with any expansion of electronic signture OR notarization.
It woul be a very short step to essentially putting all of
us out of business.
There is no reason that I can think of where if a person has
a "registered " electronic "signature, then they may not even
need a notary present for a "signing"
Their identitly could be verified biometircally (retna, finger print,
imbedded chip, sit your bare behind on a scanner, etc) the notary
need not be physically with them,
only connected by computer, (locally or in India or even to a
"Notary Public" Computer) and the dox sent
electronically to be "recorded"
A NSA would be supurflous
One more scarry thought to start off your week

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/26/07 11:07am
Msg #177192

Hmmm, virtual Notaries...Scary. n/m

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/26/07 3:17pm
Msg #177233

Re: Electronic signature and notarization from a NSA viewpoint..

From Bob_Chicago's phrase "it would be a very short step", I take it he understands that so far, the signer must still appear in person before the notary, even if the signer and/or the notary are using electronic signatures. I think the very fact that Bob can name so many different ways to eliminate the personal appearance requirement shows how hard it will be to agree on a standard that all the stakeholders can accept. The standard for hundreds of years have been notaries; reaching an agreement to replace them will be tough.

Reply by ewing2surf on 2/26/07 11:56am
Msg #177202

It happened overnight in the fingerprinting business when the state of california started requiring Live Scan fingerprinting for backround checks. Now the fingerprinting tech carries a computer.

Reply by Ndwa on 2/26/07 12:30pm
Msg #177207

A simple solution, maybe

This may sound cruel, but what happen if everyone stop responding to questions from NNA graduates?

Reply by ewing2surf on 2/26/07 1:23pm
Msg #177215

Re: A simple solution, maybe

You mean the ones like "what goes on the blank line next to State of"?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/26/07 9:27pm
Msg #177278

What is there to be concerned about?

What has NNA actually done? It isn't easy to tell from a press release, but this is how I interpret the press release:

1. A program similar to ENS (which I suppose includes ENJOA) is available for free to countries and US states for them to issue apostilles. Since ESIGN and UETA require technology neutrality, I would expect any electronic notarizations that meet certain vendor-neutral requirements (which have not been developed yet) would be eligible for an apostille.


2. Kansas sent a paperless e-Apostille to Columbia, which accepted it. Perhaps the software was provided by NNA, though the press release does not say so in so many words. Also, it is possible in principle to issue an e-apostille for a paper document (or an e-acknowledgement certificate for a paper document, for that matter), so we don't know for sure the original document was electronic.

Case 1 or 2 become an issue for notaries if a vendor to notaries becomes a monopoly, either because only one vendor is allowed to sell to notaries, or only one vendor's notary software works with the software given or sold to the SOS.

3. Rhode Island is creating a web site where anyone may verify that a paper or electronic apostille was actually issued, using just a web browser. This capability already exists in every state by mail, this is just faster. I don't see this, by itself, as an issue.

4. The web site www.ensvalidate.org fails to make clear that it only covers "Electronic Notary Seals" issued by NNA. A casual visitor might think it covers all notaries, or all notaries who are authorized to do electronic notarizations, and become needlessly concerned when the notary they are interested in is not found.