Posted by Stumpfy1_CA on 2/1/07 11:10am
Msg #173518

Has anyone come across this?

As a licensed real estate agent as well as a notary public, I get daily solicitations to my real estate email address from vendors offering all types of services. Today I got an email from a notary public that reads:

"Agents- refer me your signings and get a commission! Yes, I pay $39.00 for each Mobile Loan signing I am refered. I give you cash when I receive payment for the signing. I am Bonded, Insured, approved with all Title companies."

WHAT???????

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/1/07 11:17am
Msg #173520

I am LOL

Except, what if they are only those unbelievably insulting $50 signings?
A gross profit of $11?
Did they mention they would be stealing your contacts?

Reply by Signing_Doc on 2/1/07 11:22am
Msg #173522

Having been an LO, I'm wondering if this would be a violation of RESPA or at least the MLD laws of the state.

Reply by Stumpfy1_CA on 2/1/07 11:37am
Msg #173527

That is a great point. I would think this would definitely be considered a kickback.

Reply by Stumpfy1_CA on 2/1/07 11:39am
Msg #173528

RESPA TITLE 12--BANKS AND BANKING

CHAPTER 27--REAL ESTATE SETTLEMENT PROCEDURES

Sec. 2607. Prohibition against kickbacks and unearned fees

(a) Business referrals

No person shall give and no person shall accept any fee, kickback,
or thing of value pursuant to any agreement or understanding, oral or
otherwise, that business incident to or a part of a real estate
settlement service involving a federally related mortgage loan shall be
referred to any person.

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/1/07 11:42am
Msg #173530

Definitely a RESPA violation, IMO.

It's a kick-back. Not to mention the fact that it may be a violation of the States Real Estate laws. I think it would be here in Florida.

Sooooo many things wrong with this.

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/1/07 11:47am
Msg #173532

Re: Definitely a RESPA violation, IMO.

At a minumum I would call the Signing agent and tell her it is a violation. If you get an arrogant tone and attitude then forward the email and the text of the violation to the Board of Realators, SOS, and the State Bar association. May seem harsh but really we all need to follow the law.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/1/07 12:01pm
Msg #173535

Re: Has anyone come across this? Me? Dense?

>>"Agents- refer me your signings and get a commission! Yes, I pay $39.00 for each Mobile Loan signing I am refered. I give you cash when I receive payment for the signing. I am Bonded, Insured, approved with all Title companies." <<

I don't promote, endorse or say yay to this, but why is this evil?

What is the difference in this and referring a signing to another person in a network...except this one is going to pay you for the referral?

I understand losing contacts, I understand all that but where is the illegal, unethical part of this??

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/1/07 12:12pm
Msg #173537

Re: Has anyone come across this? Me? Dense?

Brenda I don't think Notary's work for commision. By getting the refferal they are paying a commission. Won't this give them a interest in the loan?
>>I give you cash when I receive payment for the signing.<<

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/1/07 12:15pm
Msg #173539

Don't SS do this everyday? I, too, am dense. n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/1/07 12:37pm
Msg #173544

I am not arguing this...just cannot see what is the

difference between the SS (as Mistarella mentioned) and this person asking for referrals and paying a commission.

SSs pay us when they get paid. Some even call it a commission check in my memo section.

But....IF IT IS A REAL ESTATE PERSON REFERRING THE SIGNING, THEN YES, I CAN SEE THE PROBLEM.

I was not on the page of this memo going FROM a notary TO a real estate agent. I was thinking notary to notary.

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/1/07 1:16pm
Msg #173551

Re: I am not arguing this...just cannot see what is the

The original poster recieved this in their capacity as a real estate agent. They just happen to be a NSA as well.

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/1/07 1:19pm
Msg #173553

Brenda admit it you are trying to start trouble again!!!

Just kidding! ;o)

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/1/07 2:39pm
Msg #173566

Hey...if you mess with the bull you are going to get

the horns.

(I don't know how that has anything to do with reality in this case, but I included it for Marlene who collects Texas sayings.)

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/1/07 2:50pm
Msg #173568

Re: Hey...if you mess with the bull you are going to get~Now

see that is the difference between Florida.

Texas = Hey...if you mess with the bull you are going to get ... the horns.

Florida = Hey...if you mess with the bull you are going to get ... the manure.

JMO ;o)

Reply by dickb/wi on 2/1/07 12:27pm
Msg #173541

because the real estate agent hasn't .....

performed any services for the referal fee........in order to recieve a fee under respa you have to perform some service to or for the borrower..... there fore it becomes an unlawful kick back......jmo as a real estate broker involved in this and the word from our state and national trade organizations.........

Reply by Gary_CA on 2/1/07 1:43pm
Msg #173561

Me? Dense? No but...

There might be a RESPA violation here... not that $39 is an issue...

I don't understand all of it, but I know that refferals, though common are an issue... The realtor would probably need to do an affiliated business disclosure. I've read articles on RESPA details, they give me a headache, but I get the general drift that they frown on cross refferals.

I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay at Holliday Inn Express, I know a lawyer that specializes in RE but I'm not sure what he knows about RESPA, I didn't consult him about this post. This post is for entertainment purposes only. My Dodgers are going to the big game next year. This is not intended to be legal advice.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 2/1/07 3:21pm
Msg #173575

Re: Me? Dense? No but... Actaully Gary...

When I start a loan or real estate transaction I identify the notary I'd like to complete the transaction up front and I do include the notary an the affiliated business disclosure form as well as the specific notary on the cost estimate and the closing statement. I disclose some things becasue its a CYA thing and not becasue its required. (Man do I hate it when and attorney asks in court whether I informed the client). I specifiy the notary becasue I like the notaries I work with and have had some serious problems with notaries picked by title companies and those the title company defaulted to the SS for assignment. I do commercial real estate and I had one notary totally screw up a deal because there was no RTC, no TIL, and no HUD1 because some notaries like to play at being document nazis: the deal closed because of a well versed notary whom I picked. Now I contact the notaries I work with and ask up front if missing certain docs would be a problem, if it is I move on. RESPA, CRESPA, and a bunch of other requirements are only in play for transactions of 1-4 residential units. Buyers of commercial properties and greater than 4 units are considered by law to be sophisticated buyers.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/1/07 3:23pm
Msg #173576

Just How are the Codgers...

...going to make it to the "big game" without the services of one J.D. Drew? This is not intended to be legal advice either by the way.

Reply by Gary_CA on 2/1/07 4:41pm
Msg #173601

Re: Just How are the Codgers...

the same way they always do...grrrrr.... you could make an All-Star Team out of X-Dodgers. But we've been coming closer lately... I can just feel a repeat of the 80's in my bones.

By the way, careful with the notaries on this board... Dodgers is spelled with a D !

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/2/07 8:32am
Msg #173724

Sorry About the (Mis)Spelling...

...of Codgers...I mean Dodgers! You know I'm just tweaking you a little. I'm actually a closet Dodgers fan as is evidenced by the article I posted on Sandy Koufax. My original favorite team were the 61 Yankees with the Mick, Roger, Yogi, Moose, Bobby, Tony, Clete, Elston, Johnny, Whitey, Luis, Ralph, et al. They're still my all time fav baseball squad, but living in St Louis you have to warm up to the Cardinals. In my opinion the Cardinals & Dodgers fans are the best in baseball...bar none.

Reply by daletx on 2/1/07 9:40pm
Msg #173660

Re: Me? Dense? No but...

Off Topic, but, this concept of "Dodgers" and "Big Game" only begs 1 question.
Did they ever dig themselves out of the HOLE (spelled Ravine) next ot the Pasadena Freeway?
LOL

Reply by closerchris on 2/1/07 1:10pm
Msg #173548

that closer is putting the title company at risk as well

I'm not familiar with CA law, but here in FL, I might consider that inducement.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I would consider that Notary a representative of the title agency, which would place him or her under the guidelines of FS 626.954(3)(a), which specifically prohibits rebates of a charge for a specific title service (in this case, notary service fees).

IMO, that notary is jepordizing both himself/herself and the title agency that contracts this notary.

Reply by PJM/MI on 2/1/07 8:15pm
Msg #173653

How do you say "KICKBACK"? n/m