Posted by Harry [NR] on 2/7/07 4:41pm
Msg #174583

NPBC Certification - What will it cost me?

This message is being posted for the benefit of those curious about the cost of NPBC Certification.

The NPBC system includes a complicated pricing matrix that factors service bureau fees, county-level record access fees and DMV record fees. These fees vary by state and county and often must be paid for EACH name that is checked.

Record access fees range from free to $52 per name per county (in the case of New York, which is the most expensive state to run checks in). In addition to state-imposed fees, there are service bureau fees. The service bureaus contract directly with court runners OR through a nationwide service that contracts with a network of court runners. (Think of the court runners as notaries, the service bureau as a title company and the nationwide service as a signing service.) Once all of these fees are accounted for, the NPBC administration fee is added on. That fee is between $9 and $19, which must cover:

- Development, maintenance and hosting of the system
- The time it takes to review your submission
- Securely transmitting your submission to the service bureau
- Recording the results in the NPBC database once available

The fees we have seen on the submissions to-date appear to be running from $60 to $80 and most everyone has purchased at least 1 certified copy of their report. (Note that the report will also be made available in PDF format on the web site, as well.) Your custom cost will be displayed on Step 4 provided your name and personal address history are accurate. (Note that you may enter dummy data for the rest if you only want to see what it will cost.) When the actual check is run, what you have provided will be compared to credit reports (which should not impact your credit score) and the names and addresses you have provided must match, otherwise you may fail.

Given this cost structure and conversations we have had with certain title companies, we're really quite curious as to how the OTHER notary background certification was being advertised at $39 or $49 (not including all the other fees) unless some serious corners were being cut. That type of pricing might get you a nationwide criminal check, DMV and OFAC Compliance (terrorist list), but it would be a pretty big stretch - actually, a HUGE stretch - to get county-level criminal checks for all name/county variations in a 7-year history at that price.

That is what Fidelity LSI has been doing and that is what NPBC does. It is also what Fiserv told me would be required in order for them to support the NPBC Certification. When I asked, "Uh, are you sure that's what XYZ is doing? Because I don't see room for that in their pricing." The answer was, essentially, "We know what they're doing and we're fine with it. This is what we require." So, the NPBC Level 3 check is about as intense as it gets for a non-governmental check because that's the indication we got in terms of what would be acceptable.

The Level 1 check, which runs $9, is a certification of an existing certification. If you already have an approved CBC, you can send NVR proof and you will be added to the NPBC database. The Level 2 check, which is currently disabled, was to be in the $19 range. That check was meant for those notaries in states that perform governmental checks in order to augment those checks. In other words, NPBC would run what would be considered as reasonable by most people in light of state checks and the currency of those checks: DMV, Compliance Link and Nationwide criminal. However, we got the indication from Fiserv that that would not be acceptable - they wanted the whole enchilada - while, at the same time, having states like California telling us that the intensity of their checks is none of our business. So, it is currently disabled.

Going back to what is acceptable to title companies... We know that many are accepting the XYZ CBC, which is included in Level 1. Given the fact that it also includes identity verification, commission verification, attorney and title producer, there is really no reason they should not accept it unless they are against free trade and open competition. Then, because Level 3 includes about everything possible, there's really no reason they should not accept it unless, again, they are working against the market. That leaves a big question mark beside Level 2. We can certainly turn it on if the nation's notaries can convince them it's reasonable in light of checks performed by state commissioning authorities. In the absence of that, it could be giving them a reason to say, "Oh, no, that NPBC thing will not work for us. All those levels are just too confusing." And, again, much of our position is based on a conversation with Fiserv wherein it was explained what is acceptable to them.

Finally, it should be noted that once the Level 3 criminal searches have been performed, the results are analyzed against a fairly stringent adjudication matrix. A "PASS" should be acceptable to even the most discerning lender, as NPBC has adopted a least common-denominator approach in the form of very restrictive rules.

Harry
Notary Rotary

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/7/07 5:12pm
Msg #174585

Your explanation makes sense, but...

.. the only option available to me was a level 3, even though I have an NNA BGC (and indicated that when I filled out the form). Am I missing something in the instructions?

Also, a small nit - the form demands that I provide a middle name, even though I don't have one. I can't proceed unless I fill in that box with something. Is someone going to be reviewing this so that if I enter "none" or "N/A", it won't be included as part of my name when the search is done?

Reply by Harry [NR] on 2/7/07 6:23pm
Msg #174590

Re: Your explanation makes sense, but...

The Level 1 option should display as the first choice on Page 4 provided you have checked the box and completed the information on Page 1. This worked for a Florida user a little while ago and there are no problems we're aware of. Please look again and let us know if you don't see it.

We will have the middle name problem corrected, probably by tomorrow. It was meant to be an optional field, so I'm not sure at what point it got changed. (The asterisk is supposed to display and should be interpreted as "Required if you have one," but we were not going to enforce it upon validation of the data. Our thinking was that people without middle names would try it to see if it works without data while others would continue to enter their middle name.) Thanks for pointing this out.

Harry
Notary Rotary

Reply by Linker Mobile Notary Service on 2/7/07 6:50pm
Msg #174591

Harry - another glitch I noticed is...

The "Back" button on the forms does not work, and if you use the IE back button and refresh the expired page it takes you right to the same form you were trying to back out of. Forturnately when I got to the end I could see where you can edit each section. Took awhile for me to figure out how, but when I saw the little pencil, then I knew.

Reply by dwortham/nc on 2/7/07 7:42pm
Msg #174594

Re: Your explanation makes sense, but...

Hi Harry,
I two currently have my NNA certification and CBC check, however option #1 is not available after entering my current information. Please advise. Thanks :-)

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/7/07 8:25pm
Msg #174599

Re: Your explanation makes sense, but...

"The Level 1 option should display as the first choice on Page 4 provided you have checked the box and completed the information on Page 1. This worked for a Florida user a little while ago and there are no problems we're aware of. Please look again and let us know if you don't see it."

Just tried it again, and got the same result - only option 3 is offered.

Reply by MonicaFL on 2/7/07 9:12pm
Msg #174606

Re: Your explanation makes sense, but...

Same thing happens to me. I was really shocked when I did a "test" form and saw it was going to cost me $120.80 when all I wanted was level 1 (as I think that is all we really need).

Reply by MelissaCT on 2/7/07 8:56pm
Msg #174602

One more issue about middle name

is that the *full name* appears in the notary block, which is fine IF your primary ID shows full name -- mine doesn't. Mine only has middle initial, as do most of my ID's. Luckily I have one form of ID with full name, as notaries in CT are not allowed to use birth cert or SS Card in establishing ID. Just a thought...

Reply by Dlars_FL on 2/7/07 9:40pm
Msg #174607

Re: One more issue about middle name

Hmmm... Same here Harry! So now I will be forced to find a notary who is willing to "not follow the letter of the law" by notarizing "First_Middle_Last" while the ID only shows First_M.I._Last.

Reply by NCLisa on 2/7/07 8:39pm
Msg #174600

No credit report!

If I do this, I do not want my credit report run. Credit reports are not the business of anyone that I will ever work for!

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 2/7/07 9:53pm
Msg #174609

I agree... the only person issuing credit in the NSA field

is ME, not the company hiring me. IMO, my credit record has no bearing on my ability to do this job and comply with all privacy policies. I was also stunned to see that this will cost me $89.30 for a BGC. For that, as much as I hate to say this, it's cheaper for me to renew my XYZ membership and get the BGC through them.

I have been debating this all day with myself, trying to figure out which way is better for me. I'm still torn, but $50 more than XYZ is a LOT of money when comparing apples to apples. And, in spite of the details you've provided, Harry, both of these items are a BGC that is acceptable to title companies.

If someone knows where my logic is flawed, please point it out to me. I do NOT want to support XYZ, but I do think the BGC is the next big requirement in the industry, whether it's actually a government requirement or not.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/7/07 10:06pm
Msg #174612

Re: I agree... the only person issuing credit in the NSA fie

"If someone knows where my logic is flawed, please point it out to me. I do NOT want to support XYZ"

That's where your logic is flawed. If you don't want to support the NNA, then don't support em. You wouldn't even be in this predicament if the NNA hadn't started this whole mess to begin with. Don't throw away your principles over $50.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/7/07 11:13pm
Msg #174618

Re: I agree... the only person issuing credit in the NSA fie

"For that, as much as I hate to say this, it's cheaper for me to renew my XYZ membership and get the BGC through them."

Not really - you would have to renew your membership AND join the NSA section AND pay for the certification process in order to get the BGC - all of which is going to cost you a lot more than $89.30...

For those who are not currently members of XYZ, Harry's solution may not be cheap but it is more cost-effective.

Reply by Melissa Peeke on 2/7/07 9:00pm
Msg #174603

I've already completed this very report previously

directly through LSI.

*A "PASS" should be acceptable to even the most discerning lender, as NPBC has adopted a least common-denominator approach in the form of very restrictive rules.*

How long is a "PASS" good? I passed in Oct, 2005. I'm sure I'll pass the exact same CBC again, unless incorrect information has been added to my information since then.

Reply by NCLisa on 2/7/07 9:09pm
Msg #174604

Re: I've already completed this very report previously

I passed that CBC around the same time also.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/7/07 10:48pm
Msg #174617

RE: Middle names: Some people have two middle names

and therefore use two middle initials.

This is a big issue with many online forms and can cause major problems. You might want to address it as well.

To overcome this, my father, for instance, uses his first middle name after his first name, then his second middle name as a middle name. Works only some of the time, because there are those forms that don't like a space in the first name box...you can see the problem.

Then there is the hyphenated last name issue. Since I don't have one, I can't comment, but just bring it up as a potential question.

As an aside, my 'price' was the $89.30. Harry, please, round up or round down, but drop the cents. JMHO.


Cheers!
Susie

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/8/07 7:21am
Msg #174641

The difference between Harry's and the xyz is that Harry is trying to charge each person what they require in the way of expense. The xyz is charging everyone the same thing no matter what they need. I guess they figure it balances out.

If I decide to get a bg check I will support Harry 100% because his is the only one that makes sense and seems real to me. I have been in the bg check business as a contractor/searcher.

In the 90's I was a courthouse records researcher -- before the days of the internet. I charged between $5 and $25 PER NAME to search. My charge was generally $17.50 per name for the first name of a person.

I went to the county clerk's office and check one person like this:
Jane Doe $17.50
Jane Doe Smith $5.00
Jane Smith $5.00

Jane cost $27.50.

If that was the only county a person had lived in for seven years that was all.

If they had recenty moved around then they might have to be searched in Harris County by another researcher. If they had a DWI which they reported in a neighboring county, that would add another fee as well.

So, if Jane had three counties to search that would be 3 x $27.50 (or $27.50 for me, $xx for Harris County, $xx for the county they reportedly had a crime in.).

Usually I had ss#, DOB, and DL# to check for ID. I had to get copies of the "hits" to return to the company I worked for so they could see the criminal record.

SOME PLACES still operate this way...some counties are online.

NR has never tried to CUT our throats by using our money to get more people to take business away. He promotes us. Think about it.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 2/8/07 8:29am
Msg #174651

Well stated Bren

I have NOT registered yet for this new service provided to us by Mr. Harry, my intentions are to take advantage of it but thus far none of my clients are requiring it. Having said that I am going with Harry's program NOT because it's a bit "cheaper" but because he's worked hard to give us a "choice". Isn't that the point of this exercise? Weren't we all upset over the fact that we didn't have a choice per XYZ? Now we do and regardless of what the cost is it will still be cheaper for me as I cancelled the above mentioned membership because of what I felt were unethical business practices. If I save one dollar using this new program offered it will mean I've sent a statement to both XYZ and to Mr. Harry and that is thank you for the choice!

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 2/8/07 1:26pm
Msg #174714

After some major thought....

I'm going to go ahead and get the BGC here. I agree with you, Brenda, that Harry does support us, MUCH more than XYZ ever has. Also, I believe that Harry is doing everything he can to keep the cost as low as possible while still giving us a BGC that should be acceptable to everyone and their mother at the title companies.

That said, I STILL don't think there's any reason for my credit report to be run. TCs are not issuing credit to me; I'm issuing it to them.

Reply by PAW on 2/8/07 1:39pm
Msg #174717

Another snafu when completing the online application

It requires an expiration date for the ID. My military ID does not expire. The expiration date is INDEF, but that can't be entered into the system.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 2/8/07 1:57pm
Msg #174723

You could always use 12/31/2099 (maybe) n/m

Reply by PAW on 2/8/07 2:16pm
Msg #174732

Re: You could always use 12/31/2099 (maybe)

Problem with that is when a national check is done against the ID, it may automatically fail as a mismatch. Already had this problem with a different system that required a date. They too had to modify their system for non-expiring forms of acceptable ID. But, military ID aside, state issued IDs often do not expire. At least here in FL, many seniors have ID cards, not drivers licenses, and the IDs do not have an expiration date on them.