Posted by BetsyMI on 2/14/07 10:26am
Msg #175610

Re: Strange process for RTC

One Title Company that I work for not only includes the traditional RTC forms that are to be signed/initialed in the normal manner. But sometimes, depending on the lender, they also include two more of these RTC's that have an additional strip on the bottom of the form that clearly says to the borrower "Do not sign this area until three days have elapsed after your closing" or something to that effect, and it in essence states "Three days have passed and I do not intend to cancel this loan".

Normally the borrower is to sign and date the form after three days have elapsed, and they are to fax or send it in. I imagine it rarely gets signed and sent in even if the borrower doesn't cancel. So this Title Company wants me to instruct the borrower to sign this area during the closing, and have them date it for three days later and return it with the rest of the closing package.

I don't feel comfortable asking the borrower to sign something saying that three days from now they do not intend to cancel. This doesn't seem legal, does it? The Title Company says they would just destroy the form if the borrower does cancel, but as a borrower I sure wouldn't feel right signing it.

Thoughts?

Reply by PJM/MI on 2/14/07 10:36am
Msg #175612

Re: Strange process for RTC

I've been seeing that, also. I put it as the FIRST page inside the borrowers set of docs & write on the outside of the folder the fax#. I feel at that point, I have done as I have been instructed. I feel it's up to the title co/lender to call the bo after that if it isn't faxed.
Sometimes we do things we don't always understand or have a clear idea of WHY...I just follow the instructions & go onto the next.
I don't feel the process is "illegal".. any other opinions on this?

Reply by LisaWI on 2/14/07 10:42am
Msg #175613

Re: Strange process for RTC

Ive seen these forms twice. Once I was conducting the closing with the LO present, and when I came across the form that clearly stated "Do Not Sign Blah Blah>>> , he convinced the borrowers to sign anyway. The second time I let the borrowers make their own decision on the form. There were no specific instructions on it, except again "Do Not Sign......". They chose not to sign it. It seems to be a pretty black and white form, IMO, but when the LO had them sign anyway, I didnt know what to think.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/14/07 10:43am
Msg #175616

Re: Strange process for RTC

I've had this form in a couple of packages and my experience has been that the B either will sign & date or flat refuse to do so. No grey areas in their minds. It's their loan; it's their call. You're not notarizing it. As to why it's there--???

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/14/07 11:06am
Msg #175622

Re: Strange process for RTC - I vote with Lee n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/14/07 11:10am
Msg #175623

I do the same as Lee

It's their loan and their decision. Some will sing and date and some won't.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/14/07 11:59am
Msg #175632

"sing and date"?

I know eharmony.com has become popular...but at a loan signing?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/14/07 12:11pm
Msg #175635

It's a loan signing

La de dah, here's your noooote, da da da da, and your riiiiight to canel fooooorm.
Do do de dum, sing here...oops sign heeeere ee ya ya.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 2/14/07 11:21am
Msg #175627

Never had one of thesem but

what happens when the borrower refuses to sign it?

Reply by closerchris on 2/14/07 10:57am
Msg #175619

Re: Strange process for RTC

Typically these "Election to Not Execute Right to Rescind" or similarly titled documents don't require notarization of signatures. Again, the borrowers have the right to date documents however they want.

IMO, most title agents are "on the side" of borrowers. They're going to comply with lenders' instructions, because that's their license on the line.

But, FWIW, I'm not a fan of these forms, either.

Reply by MichiganAl on 2/14/07 11:21am
Msg #175628

I have no problem with borrower signing and dating it

1st, it's not a notarized doc. 2nd, signing it doesn't somehow waive or forfeit the 3 day RTC. You can't waive or lose your three days.

Reply by BetsyMI on 2/14/07 11:35am
Msg #175629

Al

How does the borrower prove later that they didn't sign it on the third day? Maybe I'm making too big a deal of this form. I guess I can just suggest that they sign it, and if they don't, move on with the signing and make a note to the Title Company.

Reply by LisaWI on 2/14/07 12:09pm
Msg #175634

Re: Al

Correct me if Im wrong, but I wouldnt think a company would even push this issue with a borrower. It would become a mess. And we were there and saw what happened. Now that Im reading this, I think I will jot down notes in my journal on this particular form. The borrower can make up their own mind on signing it.

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/14/07 1:10pm
Msg #175653

Re: Al

Betsy,

Give me one loan that funded that shouldn't have funded due to this date thing.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 2/14/07 1:27pm
Msg #175660

Re: Al

Betsy, I saw this form fairly often 4 - 5 years ago. I occassionally run across it now and when I do, I leave it up to the borrower whether they want to sign and date it at the time of signing the original RTC or sign and fax it in later. I was told that if it is signed at the closing, the loan will fund faster (don't know if this is true or not, but that's what I've been told). If they don't want to sign it at the same time, I always give them the fax number to fax it to the morning of the 4th business day. It's their money and if they are not interested in getting it as quickly as possible, I don't worry about it. (I've seen this more times with a sub prime loan that a prime loan)

Reply by Genkichan on 2/14/07 11:37am
Msg #175631

Re: But what would happen if...

...they signed and post-dated the no-rescision statement at the table, attempted to rescind a day or two later and sent in the forms? Now, there are conflicting documents. One is a cancelation dated between the signing date before the recision period ends, and one, dated later, says they aren't canceling. Technically, wouldn't the last dated document count as "final", perhaps in the legal sense anyway? I always envision the worst case scenario, I suppose...I never have them sign that line and post-date it, and I've never had any problems with it either. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/14/07 12:16pm
Msg #175636

FWIW

Every time I have received this form, it has been requested of me (and explained to me) to have the Brw's fax that to the TC on the day of funding to determine if the brw's have utilized
their RTC. It is my understanding that this is how some TC's determine that funds should be dispersed. My guess is that some have utiized their RTC and did not notify anyone other than sending it (as directed) to the lender.

Reply by MichiganAl on 2/14/07 12:24pm
Msg #175640

Re: FWIW

The lenders I've worked with who had this always asked the borrower to sign it and post date it. I've never had one actually require the borrower to fax it back in three days and hold up funding without it.

Reply by MichiganAl on 2/14/07 12:20pm
Msg #175638

Re: But what would happen if...

All that matters is the doc that says you canceled. The RTC can't be waived, altered, or voided because of another doc that says something different, so in that situation, the other doc is worthless in the case of conflicting signatures (IMO). You get your RTC, no matter what (other than the situations where we know an RTC doesn't apply). Also, I just don't think it's within my scope to decide how to handle it. If the lender has instructed that it be signed and post dated, I show them the instructions or tell them "the lender has asked...". I never tell them that I want them to do it.

Again, it's not a notarized doc, it doesn't mean they'll lose their RTC, so I don't care what the lender and borrower want to do in that situation. It's not for me to decide.

P.S. I am not an attorney blah blah blah

Reply by Ndwa on 2/14/07 12:44pm
Msg #175646

Re: But what would happen if...

I do lots of this type of loan through Lending Center. The form is called Certificate of Confirmation. It's a funding condition required by the lender and borrowers must sign and date it by the funding date (day after RTC expired). They have the choice of sending it along with the package by signing a disclosure or must fax it ASAP to avoid delay.

Reply by PSULION/PA on 2/14/07 12:52pm
Msg #175649

I've done alot of these.......

some companies want them signed and sent back some want them faxed back after the RTC expires..... either way, Al is correct since the RTC can't be waived, voided etc. it really is the customer's option whether to sign now or later.
You can think of it as a post dated check....... it you die before the date you date the instrument for..... it's a worthless piece of paper......
The same it true for the RTC..... if you cancel before the 3 days elapse..... it really doesn't matter what else you signed...... the loan is dead!

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/14/07 1:12pm
Msg #175654

Good grief

I've got three more in this weather and I am shocked and the perceptions and "what if" senarios that occur.

Just give me the client that requests this, my partner and I will happily take them!

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/14/07 1:18pm
Msg #175657

Ain't it amazing?

The things people on this board will find to concern themselves about can be a mindblower.

I'd say people doing things to prevent every single "what if" is probably the single biggest cause of losing money on this board. With taking jobs from SOX a close second of course.

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/14/07 2:19pm
Msg #175671

Simple, Simon

I send back an intialed copy with the package to show they saw the doc. I then tell them to sign and date it on the day after RTC expires, and fax it in. I leave it as the top page on their copies with a flag.

Reply by David Kral on 2/14/07 4:58pm
Msg #175696

Has been around for a long time

That forms has been around for a long time. Some companies call to firm there has not been a cancellation. Some might require the form, especially is they are doing a lot of pay offs in a troubled situtation. I suspect a lot of times it never gets used. Not your problem. Just leave it with the borrowers.

Reply by Tracey Foughty-Deavers on 2/15/07 10:04am
Msg #175767

Re: Strange process for RTC

I've seen that form a few times. Each time, I've attached the form on the top of the package with the fax number. I spent several moments explaining to the borrowers that there might be a delay in their funding if they do not send the form back at the end of the 3 days. (I explain that I don't know the internal policies of the various companies, but the form itselt implies that there may be an issue if the form is not sent back.) I then suggest they might want to do make a note on what ever calendar/tracking system they use to send in the form. In each instance, the borrowers marked it on their calendar on in their planner right then. I think that's the best I can do.

I will not ask a borrower to sign it in advance and send it in. What happens if they do decide to cancel on the third day? That would create a huge mess.