Posted by Kirod9jx on 2/28/07 9:05pm
Msg #177614

What would you do?

Say you were hired for a signing....called brw to verify ID and such. Middle initial on ID does not match middle initial on Docs. I obviously cannot verify that she is one in the same. After going around with SS, who is standing by me, but lender is telling them to "find another notary", the closing is "canceled". Which to me means they are "finding another Notary". Just looked up the info on the county website and sure enough, another notary did it using the original docs with middle initial which was not the same as the Id.
What steps would you all take, if any?

Reply by jojo_MN on 2/28/07 10:16pm
Msg #177629

Did you ask the lender how to procede? Sometimes they have you cross out the incorrect information, have the borrowers correct it and initial the changes. If you have a drivers license with their correct picture and address, with at least one other appropriate id, there shouldn't be a problem. IMHO

Reply by Blueink_CA on 2/28/07 10:20pm
Msg #177630

Karen, this is what we all face, everyday. Sometimes people have their DL listed in a name they prefer. Name, middle initial, last name. I see this all the time. The question you need to ask yourself: Is this the person that is named on these docs? Are you willing to go to court and testify as to your reasons for identifying them as such?

Common sense comes into play here. I wish it was such cut and dry. But it's not.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/28/07 10:23pm
Msg #177633

Re: What would you do? Blueink, You are my hero. n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/28/07 10:22pm
Msg #177632

See page 32 & 61 of the FL manual.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 2/28/07 10:37pm
Msg #177638

We can all suspect what happened, but we cannot be certain the signer didn't find an acceptable ID with the correct middle initial in the back of some drawer, or, depending on how much time passed, go to the DMV and get the driver license corrected.

Reply by jojo_MN on 2/28/07 10:39pm
Msg #177640

Which was wrong? The ID or the docs? n/m

Reply by CJ on 3/1/07 12:12am
Msg #177662

A good point: which was wrong: the id or the docs? Also, whenever you don't have "valid id", you can always get two witnesses to vouch that this is the person named in the docs. Also, one time I asked the signing service WHY we cannot backdate, becuase I wanted to be able to explain the gravity to the borrowers. I was told that all the person has to do to get out of the loan is say "we back dated". They are out of the loan, and EVERYONE else is in trouble. I think that would apply here too. All they would have to do is say, "That's not me". Who would be out of a loan, and who would be in trouble? I think I would have gotten the two witnesses. Then I would have told him to get his ID fixed in the morning.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/1/07 7:44am
Msg #177680

...A good point: which was wrong: the id or the docs? Also, whenever you don't have "valid id", you can always get two witnesses to vouch that this is the person named in the docs. Also, one time I asked the signing service WHY we cannot backdate, becuase I wanted to be able to explain the gravity to the borrowers. I was told that all the person has to do to get out of the loan is say "we back dated". They are out of the loan, and EVERYONE else is in trouble. I think that would apply here too. All they would have to do is say, "That's not me". Who would be out of a loan, and who would be in trouble? I think I would have gotten the two witnesses....

I am constantly amazed at the replies I see on these boards. Sorry but here goes. Are you new at this?

ID or docs don't have to be WRONG, they can just be DIFFERENT- especially for women middle name/maiden name/previously married name/hyphenated last name

You 'asked a signing service why we can't backdate'? That's basic notary 101 and is also backwards. No one actually says we can't backdate - you won't find that written anywhere. What it says, I'm guessing in all states, is that your signer must appear before you the date you notarize.

That funky credible/stranger witness requirement isn't an option in most states.

Not discussing whether or not she should have notarized with the middle initial difference but should this type situation ever go to court, a judge would look at 'intent' and saying, 'that's not me' when it is you probably wouldn't cut it.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/1/07 1:41am
Msg #177672

True story example...

I'm not sure what I would do in your situation as far as action after the fact, but good for you for sticking to your guns! BTW, did you ask them if they had anything else that could verify the initial on the docs? Depending on the circumstances, this could be a potential grey area,, unless it was just a document error. [For example, sometimes a woman will use her maiden name as a middle name. I've had people tell me the DMV told them they HAD to do it that way. Do they have a plausible explanation and some kind of proof to back it up? Tread cautiously, though. Read on for a good reason why...] If it WAS a document error, **with the lender's permission**, you might have been able to have them sign their name as on the ID, then either correct it on all the docs, or let lender use a Limited Power of Attorney for Corrections for Document Corrections Agreement or something similar, if in the package, to fix it. Regardless of how they might have you proceed, though, I'm sure you know that you would only put on your notary certificates whatever name you were able to properly document.

Having said that, here's an actual example of a situation in which a wrong initial could be a big problem. (And this really happened to me, I swear! ;> ) I was doing a signing for a young couple who happened to mention to me that the husband's single sister had the same first name as his wife (who changed her last name to her husband's when they got married). End result? The two sisters-in-law have the SAME FIRST AND LAST NAME. I believe the middle initial is the only differnce.

What if there were family issues and one of them tried to pull something? One potential example I can think of is if the husband decided to take out another loan against the property but didn't want his wife to know. So he gets his sister to pose as his wife - and the notary decides to ignore the different middle initial??!! I'm sure there are many other examples of where potential problems could occur with carelessness with IDs - or lenders who try to get around them. And I'd bet that the common name situation in this example isn't as rare as people might like to believe!

Re: your question, with the little bit of information you have, there probably isn't anything you can do. However, I'd guess the title co would be the party most likely to be concerned...

Reply by Kirod9jx on 3/1/07 6:14am
Msg #177675

Re: True story example...

According to the Brw, neither the docs or the ID were wrong, just different. One being her given middle initial, and one being maiden name initial. She is now single. She had no other forms of Id to validate the name on docs and it is my understanding that you can only use 2 credible witnesses if there are not VALID forms of id. Her DL is valid. I never spoke with the lender, only the SS. I have in a previous situations, crossed out the middle initial on docs. (With approval of course.)
This lender wasn't having it. I gave the facts to SS and let them argue with lender. I went with my gut on this one and when the SS called back to cancel, well I must admit I was relieved to not be involved in this one. Thanks for all the input and support from all of you.

Reply by jojo_MN on 3/1/07 12:15pm
Msg #177717

I actually ran into this situation this week. After

refinaning their last mortgage, the husband changed his last name to the wife's maiden name. The wife changed her name back to her maiden name and switched her first and last middle around. I verified it with the notarized name change declaration from the courts. Talk about confusing. We had to sign each and every page of the document Jane Mary Doe nka Mary Jane Smith, and Robert John Doe nka Robert John Smith. Just to make it all more interesting, the last company that re-fied their mortgage spelled the last name wrong on the mortage, so the Quit Claim Deed had to be signed Jane Mary Doe aka Jane Mary Deo nka Mary Jane Smith and Robert John Doe aka Robert John Doe nka Robert John Smith. Talk about confusing!

One more reason I love my job--it's never boring!!!

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/1/07 12:50pm
Msg #177725

I wouldn't do anything

If I refuse to notarize because of ID issues, I don't worry about what happens afterwards. I just assume that they're going to find a notary that will do it illegally and I'm not going to waste any of my time trying to be the notary police.