Posted by Patti Corcoran on 2/16/07 7:57pm
Msg #176123

nrtr - to be or not be

I am under the assumption that there is always a nrtc included in all docs except HELOC's.

Please correct me/comment. thanks

Reply by Cheryl_NV on 2/16/07 8:13pm
Msg #176124

No they are in Heloc's but are not in Purchases or investment property or 2nd homes.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/16/07 8:14pm
Msg #176125

"I am under the assumption that there is always a nrtc included in all docs except HELOC's."

Purchase, secondary home/investment property, and modifications of an existing line of credit are excluded.

Refi's and HELOCs that don't fall into those categories have an RTC.

Reply by Calnotary on 2/17/07 10:07am
Msg #176172

And what exactly would be a modification of line of credit?

Thank you!

Reply by jojo_MN on 2/16/07 9:14pm
Msg #176134

Any transaction that involves the primary residence has a rtc. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/16/07 9:39pm
Msg #176141

Their can be a RTC on any loan if that is what the lender wants. I have investment property and did a Heloc and I had a RTC.

Reply by jojo_MN on 2/16/07 9:40pm
Msg #176142

I meant a federally mandated rtc. Thanks. n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/16/07 10:24pm
Msg #176150

"Any transaction that involves the primary residence has a rtc. Please correct me if I'm wrong."

RTC doesn't apply to purchase of primary residence or modification of an existing line of credit on primary residence.

Reply by jojo_MN on 2/16/07 10:50pm
Msg #176159

Thanks. I knew about purchase, wasn't aware of modification. n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 2/17/07 10:13am
Msg #176173

purchases

When someone is purchasing with a first and second mortgage, often times the second has a RTC. Bottom line is remove that word ALWAYS from anything we do other than the notarial part of job. Also forget the word NEVER.

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/17/07 10:51am
Msg #176175

Re: purchases~ Exactly! n/m

Reply by James H. Lissemore on 2/17/07 4:34pm
Msg #176197

Re: purchases~ Exactly!

Modifications (increases) in HELOCS I have done in New Jersey have had RTC.

Reply by PAW on 2/17/07 4:45pm
Msg #176198

Re: purchases~ Exactly!

If there is a change in the interest rate, principle amount or credit limit, I'm pretty sure there must be an RTC. If the rate and principle or line remains the same, no RTC is required.

Reply by James H. Lissemore on 2/17/07 5:52pm
Msg #176203

Re: purchases~ Exactly!

As a Notary signing specialist I just point out to a borrower that they have or do not have a right to cancel. Not my role to say legal or not.

Reply by PAW on 2/17/07 7:25pm
Msg #176207

Absotively key-recto mundo! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/18/07 8:15am
Msg #176231

Re: Absotively key-recto mundo! 100% correct??

**As a Notary signing specialist I just point out to a borrower that they have or do not have a right to cancel. Not my role to say legal or not.**

So, let me get this straight. James says the above and it's correct.

I agree with the part about "Not my role to say legal or not."

However, would you--in your capacity as NSA--really point out that they do NOT have a right to cancel??

I wouldn't. What's not there I don't talk about. Seems like that's a UPL gateway IMHO.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/18/07 4:18pm
Msg #176266

Re: Absotively key-recto mundo! 100% correct??

"However, would you--in your capacity as NSA--really point out that they do NOT have a right to cancel??
I wouldn't. What's not there I don't talk about. Seems like that's a UPL gateway IMHO."

But when asked directly, how do you respond?

I've had this come up on a secondary home refi. Borrower assumed there was an RTC; when asked about it, I just shuffled through the papers (knowing it wasn't there), told him there was nothing in the packet about that, and suggested he call the LO for clarification. He couldn't reach the LO, and asked me again about the RTC - I repeated my shuffle thing, and said again there was nothing about that in the packet.

In the end, he decided not to sign because the numbers didn't make sense, he couldn't contact the LO, and I think he finally realized that the fact there was no such document meant that there was no RTC. I'm not sure how else that could have been handled - tell him yes and it's a lie, tell him no and it's UPL. I think telling him nothing other than that the form he was looking for wasn't in the packet was the only legitimate way to answer his question.

Reply by Brenda Stone on 2/18/07 4:41pm
Msg #176268

Re: Absotively key-recto mundo! 100% correct??

I do not lie to the borrowers, Mike. Of course not. If the paper is not there it's not there.

However, I don't sit down at a signing appointment and point out what is not there. If I did that there would be any number of documents missing from a package which I have seen in others.

Naturally, if queried about what is not there, that's the answer. It's not there.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/18/07 5:57pm
Msg #176270

Understood, Brenda

" I do not lie to the borrowers, Mike. Of course not. If the paper is not there it's not there.
However, I don't sit down at a signing appointment and point out what is not there. "

I wasn't suggesting that anyone might be lying, and I apologize if it came across sounding that way. I was only asking about how one would respond to a direct question from the borrower, because it could be a touchy situation.

I think we can all agree that there's a big difference between "Is there an RTC in the package?" and "Do I have an RTC with this loan?" Both questions can be answered yes or no; the answer to the second one could certainly be considered UPL. I wasn't trying to challenge anyone on this one - just wondering how others would handle it, because I've been in that situation.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/18/07 6:09pm
Msg #176272

Mike...

I didn't take it like you were accusing me of lying, but just wanted to be clear.

What I appreciate about you, Mike, is that you ask really good thought provoking questions that make me think. I love it when there's something to discuss that others may not have thought of.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/18/07 7:46pm
Msg #176278

Thanks, Brenda n/m

Reply by hcampersFL on 2/18/07 6:16pm
Msg #176273

Re: Understood, Brenda

If being questioned by the BR about this and no LO officer in site (or phone) I would at least call Title. Give someone the chance to explain to the BR.

I would NEVER bring up the fact that their isn't one in the package.

It goes with out saying that these questions should be answered before we ever get to the appt. A quick call to the LO before you even reach the BR's to inquire maybe very helpful. That gives the LO a chance to talk to the BR in advance and they can be informed....really LO do this sometimes, honest! LOL

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/18/07 8:43pm
Msg #176281

Re: Understood, Brenda

"If being questioned by the BR about this and no LO officer in site (or phone) I would at least call Title. Give someone the chance to explain to the BR.

I would NEVER bring up the fact that their isn't one in the package. "

OK, but it's 9:30 PM and no one's answering the phone. The SS that assigned me is not available, I was given a bad phone number for the LO, no one's answering at Title, and the borrower can't get in touch with his broker.

And he's looking at me across the table, saying "I have a right to cancel, correct? I can sign now and talk to them in the morning, right?"

I'm not making up a scenario - this actually happened. What would you do in that situation?

My choice was to make a show of going through the documents, tell him that the one he was asking about wasn't there, and then let him make the decision whether or not to go forward with the signing. Maybe I screwed up, but I don't think I did.

"It goes with out saying that these questions should be answered before we ever get to the appt. "

Absolutely - and that might happen some day after we get world peace, an end to hunger, and Brittany Spears grows her hair back... The reality is that sometimes these questions aren't even brought up until we get to the assignment, because the paper we're carrying is not what the borrower thought they were getting.

Reply by PAW on 2/18/07 9:19pm
Msg #176288

Re: Absotively key-recto mundo! 100% correct??

What Mike and Hcampers said. I would never talk about something not there of my own volition. However, if asked about the right to cancel, say, for example, at a purchase closing, I would respond that typically it is not provided, but they should ask their mortgage broker or loan officer if one is available. And only if it's a dry closing. If it is a wet closing, there obviously would not be an RTC, and 99% of purchase closings are wet closings here.