Posted by GRF on 1/16/07 9:23pm
Msg #171222

Co-borrower can hardly sign name - long

Had a closing scheduled for 7:30 this evening. Package is 120 pages. I get to the closing and find out the co-borrower has MS and can barely sign her name. Husband says she should be able to do it so we sit down and start first 10 pages in she is doing pretty well not very legible though. From there on she can barely hold the pen. Tried to call and get suggestions from SS and lender, no one avail.

They say their son has power of attorney and I know this wouldn't be helpful at that moment because it requires prior approval from the lender and he wasn't available at the time either. They think the husband has power of attorney also but weren't sure, just for my own knowledge can there be more than one power of attorney?

After two hours we got about 2/3 of the way through the package. Finally the wife just couldn't do anymore. I offered to come back in the morning around 10 am when she is at her best. All of the docs to be notarized are done, all that is left are w-9s, info, privacy policies, the second and third set of loan applications (isn't one enough), etc.

When I go back how should they date these final docs?

I will probably have a total of 3 hours in this closing by the time I'm done, thankfully they are very nice people unfortunately I can barely breathe thanks to the ammonia from their cats. My eyes and lungs hurt so bad. I left a message with SS to the status. Probably won't hear from them till after I've been back to the borrowers house.

Any suggestions from the pros on how to handle a similar situation in the future. Are there docs that we have initialed in typical practice that may not be absolutely necessary in these circumstances. Privacy policies and such. I don't want to short cut but it was hard to watch her struggle. Husband asked if he could initial for her and she just sign signature page, it was actually harder for her to initial. Not sure what was allowed I said no that we'd just take the time necessary, there were times when he had to help hold the pen in her hand, is that a problem?

In the beginning I asked if they would rather reschedule and notify the lender to get approval for a power of attorney and have her son sign for her at a later date. They wish they were able to but needed to have the loan funded as soon as possible. Plus I was unsure of their lock date and what the lender would have said.

Again I would just like to hear from others, hopefully this never happens again but I see alot of elderly people so I am sure this is bound to happen again.

Sorry so much info and questions at once.

Also why are there so many copies of a loan app even a faxed version that is usually shrunken down and so blurry that you can't even read it. I have always had every copy signed but it just seems so outrageous. Plus you get the questions why is there more than one, that's usualy when they want to look at more closely so they can see if they are actually the same.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/16/07 10:40pm
Msg #171240

Because all of the critical docs were signed/dated, I can't imagine the remaining few will matter much. Can't you call first thing in the AM? Feeling your pain about the duplicate...maddening.

Best,
Susie

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 1/16/07 11:19pm
Msg #171244

As I understand it, in many states it is perfectly legal....

for a competent person to direct another person to execute a
document on their behalf. so long as both parties are present..
This is not the same as a POA where the principl is not present at
the time that the document is executed.
Another method, depending on applicable state law, would be
a signature by mark

Reply by LisaWI on 1/17/07 8:31am
Msg #171313

Re: As I understand it, in many states it is perfectly legal....

Bob, could you point me in the direction of this information, even if it is from your state laws. I once had this situation come up at a signing. The signing never happened because of the terms of the loan, but the husband wanted to sign for the wife. I would really appreciate it.

Reply by PAW on 1/17/07 8:54am
Msg #171315

Re: As I understand it, in many states it is perfectly legal

Lisa,

You can view the Florida procedure in our manual (http://pawnotary.com/download/Florida_Manual.pdf) on pages 38 and 39. The manual outlines exactly what is needed and how to do a notarization for someone who directs another, or the notary, to sign and how to notarize a signature when the signer simply makes a mark. (It also covers some other unusual situations.)

Again, this is for Florida, you state practices may be different.

Reply by LisaWI on 1/17/07 9:21am
Msg #171323

Re: As I understand it, in many states it is perfectly legal

Thanx PAW, again I set out to find something in our laws, only to come up blank. I envy you and your state notary laws. I dont like "guessing", I like right to the point. The horror stories Ive been hearing lately on notaries in our state is astounding and IMO if a law cant be found to go by, it leaves the door wide open for someones own interpretation whether its right or wrong.

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/17/07 12:39am
Msg #171281

As long as the notarized docs were already done...

you don't need to worry about backdating issues. They can date them for the day before. But I just don't want to be the one to tell them that. I leave it to the lender or t.c. to call them and instruct them on how they want the rest of the docs signed.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/17/07 6:48am
Msg #171301

To answer your other questions...

1. You would have to check your state laws to be sure, but in general you can have more than one name on a POA; you then indicate whether the power is to be exercised jointly or separately. On the standard NY form, a box must be checked to indicate how it will be exercised, and if no box is checked it must be exercised jointly.

2. There may be multiple copies of the loan app because changes were made to it during the course of processing the loan, and all copies have to be kept with the file. The older ones are sometimes backdated on the signature line with the date the info was taken, usually because the info was taken over the phone and for some reason the LO never had the thing signed.

Reply by TRG_wy on 1/17/07 9:30am
Msg #171327

Re: Co-borrower can hardly sign name - another

I have run into this situation a few times. In these instances a signature stamp was used.
When patients become too ill (i.e. MS) to handle a pen, or physically cannot for extended periods; a self-inking rubber stamp is an approved option.

In all cases a doctor's statement is required and approved by the state. I have seen this stamp used on driver licenses and other legal forms. Persons with this need also carry the authorization to use signature stamp in lieu of handwriting. They might be able to do one or two but then they have a very hard time signing. Especially on 125 page packages.

Doesn't help the situation here, but it might come up especially when you do closing for the elderly or hand strength disabled.