Posted by sn/oh on 1/23/07 9:50pm
Msg #172324

Gotta question about a midnite signing

The loan docs are pre-dated 1/23/07. Needless to say the ss was late in sending docs and I will not be at the signing until midnight of 1/24/07. Will this pose a problem?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/23/07 10:00pm
Msg #172325

The 23rd is not the 24th. n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/23/07 10:11pm
Msg #172328

And Vice Versa. n/m

Reply by Paul_IL on 1/24/07 10:12am
Msg #172359

Bet it took you awhile to make that connection! N/M n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/24/07 11:25am
Msg #172381

Eleven whole minutes n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/24/07 6:39pm
Msg #172455

Aww, you two are too cute. Thanks for the laugh. n/m

Reply by PAW on 1/23/07 10:01pm
Msg #172326

Only if the lender/title company has a problem with notary certificates dated for 1/24/07. If that's a problem with them and they want you to backdate, then it's a big problem for you as you can't backdate.

Reply by NCLisa on 1/23/07 10:03pm
Msg #172327

You need to find out if the docs are date sensitive.

Reply by David Kral on 1/24/07 9:41am
Msg #172354

Not sure if you are talkin 12:01am 11/24/07 or 11:59pm 11/24/07. If you show up 11:59 pm on 11/23/07 and verify ids, then I would date 11/23/07(I would note the time in my journal or make a note and I would pull out all the notarized documents and have them sign them right away.)

If they are dated 11/23/07 and you are signing them signinficantly after 11:59pm 11/23/07, then call the title company and ask what they want you to do.

Reply by GF_CA on 1/24/07 9:57am
Msg #172356

Call the Title Company at 11:59pm?

I would go to the signing if it is already scheduled, let the signing service know that I'll arrive at midnight and, let the borrower sign with 01/24/07. It is not your fault if you received the docs that late.

Reply by SharonMN on 1/24/07 10:55am
Msg #172370

Re: Why are you signing at midnight?

There is such a thing as being too accomodating. If the borrower requests a midnight appointment, that's one thing. However, if things are just late, I won't be a part of pressuring the borrower to sign in the middle of the night. That would never happen if the closing was at a title office. I always ask bwr if it's too late if appt. is after 9 pm.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/24/07 12:28pm
Msg #172391

I'm with you Sharon

I have to wonder how many hours the original poster devoted to sitting around and waiting for these docs to show up. I hope he or she had the good sense to double the fee when it was clear the signing wasn't gonna be happening until midnight.

People need to repeat this like a mantra: THERE IS SUCH A THING AS BEING TOO ACCOMODATING.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/24/07 1:10pm
Msg #172401

Re: Why are you signing at midnight?

Some people work swing shift. Many of us advertise 24 hour service. I have done quite a few late at night or early in the morning ...

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/24/07 12:26pm
Msg #172390

"If you show up 11:59 pm on 11/23/07 and verify ids, then I would date 11/23/07"

Your notary certificate doesn't verify when you checked the IDs, it confirms when the document was signed. If the pen hits paper on 1/24, that's the date you put on your notarization.

And I agree with the poster who said "call the title company at 11:59?" A little common sense please?

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/24/07 1:07pm
Msg #172399

I am a little late but .....................

I wrote a letter to the California SOS a year or so ago asking that question. I was looking for it and can't find it right now to quote it word for word but it basically said that the transaction is deemed to have taken place on the day it begins and may be dated as such even if it runs past midnight into the next day. Once you view ID and log the time accurately in your book, the transaction has begun and is dated as such.

The writer actually gave the analogy of a football game with two seconds on the clock. The offensive team is allowed to finish the play no matter how long it takes.

I put the letter in a safe place so I would have it to reference should I be faced again with that situation. Guess I had better go look for it ....

Reply by cara on 1/24/07 1:51pm
Msg #172404

California position on signings that span midnight

Please make sure you post the letter when you find it. Is it an official opinion or position? A date along with the name of the person who signed it would also be very helpful if we need to reference it. Thanks!

Reply by sn/oh on 1/24/07 2:12pm
Msg #172409

Re: Why are you signing at midnight?

I signed late last night because the money was right:-) Glenn, your answer was quite interesting. I hope you find your paper. I just walked in after midnight, signed everything the 24th and got it over with. Like you said CF, it's not my fault that papers were late.
Thanx everybody for your input. Your combined knowledge IS priceless!

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/24/07 2:22pm
Msg #172414

Re: California position on signings that span midnight

I would recommend that everyone, including California notaries, write and get their own opinion to use in the event of this situation. I wrote my letter because of a dispute between myself and a title company (California based). The California handbook would seem to require the exact time that each document is notarized on page 9 with the following statement "1. Date, time and type of each official act (e.g. acknowledgment, jurat)." However, the letter that I have states it is ok to use the time and date that the BO signs my journal during the entire transaction, regardless. I am still going to proceed with caution. I had one the other month that was a scheduled for midnight. There were only two documents that required notarization, so those went to the top of the pile and I was asked the borrower to move the time to 11:45pm and we got those done before midnight.

My bottom line is that even though I have a letter, that opinion could change depending on who answers the question (like the IRS) I will try to avoid the situation and I submit that it is possible. If, for some reason, that I cannot begin the transaction before midnight, then that day's will apply in all cases -- no backdating.