Posted by Lenders First Choice on 1/19/07 4:50pm
Msg #171725

Payment

What is the overall National Avg. for a signing? Doesn't NSA or NNA have a national price?

Reply by Genkichan on 1/19/07 4:57pm
Msg #171726

NNA's "suggested" price is a huge joke among NSA's. The NNA does not regulate our industry in any way, nor is it right or appropriate for them to recommend NSA fees in the first place. We all set our fees according to the cost of doing business in our areas. What amazes me is how much money a Title Co is willing to pay a signing service to contract a notary, yet that same Title Co. is not willing to pay the same fee to contract a notary directly themselves. If the Title Co. is actually, honestly cutting costs on the HUD for the client, that's one thing. But that is also rarely the case.

Please consider the fact that we as signing agents do a whole lot more to earn our fee, and spend more time on one package, than most people sitting behind desks at Title Cos or signing services realize. Not to mention as IC's we are responsible for our own taxes, savings, retirement, overhead office costs, insurance, etc. etc. It's not just about one fee for one assignment. It's about our livelihoods and making a fair and decent living now and for our futures, too. Please don't offer us $100 edocs. We're worth much more than that. Thank you for your consideration.

Reply by Lenders First Choice on 1/19/07 5:11pm
Msg #171729

Thank you for your honesty. I understand the hassel some files can produce. I talk to hunderds of notaries on a weekly basis, and some always bring up the NNA's "suggested" price. They say it's $50, and I was wanting to know if that was correct.

Reply by Kathleen/CA on 1/19/07 5:18pm
Msg #171733

The NNA lowered it? Geez, they are killing us. Last I heard it was $65. Guess I'm gonna have to pull out my will work for food sign after I finish my signing tonight.

Reply by Lenders First Choice on 1/19/07 5:20pm
Msg #171734

Kathleen, don't jump yet. I was just asking if what I heard was correct. You may be correct. I was looking for a website but I couldn't find one.

Reply by Kathleen/CA on 1/19/07 6:45pm
Msg #171751

Of course, I was trying to lend some humor to a long..long week. I believe they have their (NNA) suggested pricing to pay an SA, although I think you have to be a member to access.

Reply by PL on 1/19/07 5:26pm
Msg #171737

I like Bologna and cheese :) n/m

Reply by Blueink_CA on 1/19/07 6:29pm
Msg #171747

Re: I like Bologna and cheese :)

Perhaps we should keep a tip jar in our briefcase.

Reply by Carmen/123 on 1/19/07 5:21pm
Msg #171736

That is because they don't know any better. The new notaries think the NNA is the god-all. It is only after they put some months into it that they find out what really is going on.

The signing companies take advantage of us. They ususally charge the title/escrow/lender a high price and then pay us a low price. The problem is that we are the ones who do all of the work, have all of the liability and bare all of risk!

~Carmen

Reply by Ndwa on 1/19/07 5:12pm
Msg #171730

"What amazes me is how much money a Title Co is willing to pay a signing service to contract a notary, yet that same Title Co. is not willing to pay the same fee to contract a notary directly themselves."

Start your own signing service, problem solved!

Reply by Genkichan on 1/19/07 5:28pm
Msg #171738

No, it's not problem solved. First, I would be sucked by guilt for only being able to pay a notary around $100 per edoc assignment, because now all of a sudden my overhead costs for my new company, including office space and equipment to hire a couple folks to help me out, just skyrocketed. Opening a signing service does not solve any problems, and as this industry slows, more and more small signing services will find themselves out of business in a hurry. Have you ever tried to run a company with a couple employees? It's not easy or cheap.

Reply by TRG_wy on 1/19/07 6:09pm
Msg #171743

The SA is the core problem here. Nothing like adding a middle man in there to take 60-80% of the fee the TC is willing to pay to have the docs processed by us.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/20/07 12:07pm
Msg #171831

Good answer! Most SS get $300 for a signing. Most notaries (I'm guessing) ask $100, (standard refi, plus $25 for edocs) knowing that they DO get business from some SS's and more or less $100 covers their cost and time. also the SS's need to make something to stay in business. I have no problem with EVERYONE making something. I DO have a problem with the theives in this business. It would be wonderful to get rid of the middle men (SS's) but I don't see that happening (unless EVERYONE will do a signing for $50) It is NECESSARY that we rid ourselves of the thieving SS's! We do that by not working for them, EVER!

Reply by Sign/SealCO on 1/19/07 6:30pm
Msg #171748

when hired directly through LFC I've always been paid quite fairly. they have always agreed to my fee and never had to bicker back and forth.

Reply by Sher_AZ on 1/19/07 8:32pm
Msg #171756

I too have always been paid fairly and promptly by LFC. Never have to make follow-up calls or send e-mail inquiries for payment.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 1/19/07 9:45pm
Msg #171763

Here are some of the notary's costs and time

I absolutely would not be able to do this work at the NNA's ridiculously low suggested fee, especially in this rural area where closings are widely spaced. I've had competition from part-timers who have quit and from full-timers who have quit because they either discover they're not making enough to justify the time, expenses and hassles or they realize they're not making enough to justify the time, expenses and hassles, and they're fed up with waiting a month to two months average for payment from the good companies and tired of having to beg some signing agencies who still haven't paid after several months.
Typical Deductions:
Taxes - average 25% for employer/employee share - more or less, depending on what other income you might have
Gas - average 100 mile round trip (some more, some less, but this is average) divided by average 20 MPG = gallons required x cost of gas
Toner for laser printer - some refill cartridges, but I don't, so my toner cost is about $100 divided by an average 12 packages per toner print capability
Long Distance - cost averaged over all closings for calls to agency, title company, lender, borrower, faxbacks, etc.
Cell Phone - 90% of the use of mine is notary-work related - divide monthly cell phone charge by average number of closings per month
Vehicle Depreciation - Yes, that car will wear out quicker with all the driving you're doing, and so will the tires and parts on it - average tires, repairs, excessive mileage, insurance and general upkeep as well as eventual earlier-than-normal replacement cost and divide by the average number of closings during the lifetime of the vehicle
Misc. Supplies - binder clips, file folders, ink cartridges for your inkjet printer, pens, etc - monthly cost divided by average number of closings per month
Office Equipment Depreciation - Yes, your equipment will require upgrading or replacement and possibly repair, so calculate average cost of repairs, replacement cost, hardware and software upgrades per closing
TIME - Ummmm, don't forget that you must not only recover your expenses but also should earn a living wage. So consider time spent on calls to and from agency, title company, lender and borrower, time online accessing and printing paperwork related to closing (confirmations, instructions, driving directions, etc.), time driving to the closing, time at the closing, time driving from the closing, time reviewing the signed package one more time and completing your Notary Journal, time preparing and delivering the signed closing package to Fed-Ex or UPS, time downloading and printing e-docs (including calls to pertinent parties asking and begging for e-docs, time rearranging your schedule and calling borrowers to rearrange their schedule when e-docs are late.......
And we do closings anytime, anyplace on a moment's notice. It's not unusual to receive a call at 3 PM asking if you can do a closing at 7 PM in a location 60 miles away, and oh by the way we don't have the documents yet but we should have them soon. And it's a crap shoot as to what will happen next - (1) docs are on time, (2) docs arrive at 7 or 8 or 9, and you finally leave the house at 10, or (3) the title company or SA calls and says they can't get the docs ready after all and can you do it tomorrow. I've done closings as early as 6 AM and as late as 11:30 PM If you are not flexible and able to just "roll with the punches", you will not make it in this business. We are being paid for our expertise, knowledge, and "can do" ability, not just for the ability to point at a line and tell borrowers to "sign here".

Reply by Ilona_OH on 1/19/07 10:08pm
Msg #171767

Thanks for the breakdown and ain't it the truth.For

$40.00 dollars and $15.00 for edocs we have the right to dig the trench around us and jump in.They have got to be kidding!

Reply by TRG_wy on 1/19/07 10:38pm
Msg #171771

Couldn't have said any better myself n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 1/20/07 9:22am
Msg #171811

Re: Here are some of the notary's costs and time

...not only recover your expenses but also should earn a living wage...

As a business, you should also be earning a profit not just a living wage. Profit is what you earn for the aggravation, worrying, stressing, and total uncertainty of being a business owner.

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/19/07 10:54pm
Msg #171776

SS vs. SA

Did a loan signing tonight. I was paid $125. E-docs, over 220 pages (including borrowers copy), drove over 90 miles round trip. Docs were sent to me directly from TC. Other than calling me, the SS was not involved. SS gets $250, I got $125 (total on HUD was $375 for notary services to the SS that hired me). According to NNA, $65 + $25 e-docs is "big bucks". They obviously never did our job.

Don't get me wrong--there are some very good SS out there that don't rip off the NSA's.

Reply by JOHNA MCKENNA-MANTICA on 1/19/07 11:19pm
Msg #171778

LFC- NNA has us listed as $65.00 plus $25.00 for edocs. There are other factors that come into place such as distance. I have done many signings for your company and they have ALWAYS been fair. I just did one for LFC tonight.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/20/07 2:43am
Msg #171785

One size does not fit all.

In this great vast country of ours, the variables are far too great for an average to have any meaning. Trying to do so reminds me of the saying: If you have one foot in a kettle of boiling water and the other embedded in ice, on an average--you're comfortable.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/21/07 4:50pm
Msg #171965

If memory serves, the NNA's fee recommendations were originally suggested as MINIMUMS. I still think they are outrageous even as minimums, but the fact that eveyone seems to have forgotten that confirms even more my belief that there shouldn't be any standardized fees. Not only are there great differences in circumstances from signing to signing, but there are also significant differences in levels of service provided by SAs - in terms of professionalism, experience, etc. A knowledgeable SA can sometimes head off a problem in advance or help prevent additional work on the part of the title/escrow co or even make the difference between whether or not a loan closes on time - or at all. With all the money at stake for all the other players, I should think this makes the SA's time worth enough to provide a reasonable profit!

BTW, great post, Sharon Taylor!